🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Jul21.195901.2940@ccu.umanitoba.ca> vspicer@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
>hi net world
>	i am interested in the current thread on formal programming education.
>some associates from high school have *claimed* (note i have problems
>swallowing this) that they have held major programming and marketing jobs
>in the industry with just high school education.

There used to be two people in my group that had only a college education.
They both got cut in the last round of lay-offs.

>	one fellow claimed to have worked as the product manager for a major
>software publisher/distributor, the other claims to have worked for litton
>systems (a canadian defence contractor) and the department of defence. both
>say they were making in excess of $100k a year since they were 17. 

$100K sounds a little far-fetched.  How long ago was this?  It did used to be
fairly common for people to work their way up from the ranks of manufacturing
into more "professional" jobs, but it's not as common anymore.  Where I work,
(and I'm sure it's true of other defense contractors) a lot of the executives
seem to come from the military.  Are your friends veterans?

>	this strikes me as being completely nuts, but they say there are
>"back doors" into most corporations where "ability" is worth more than
>formal training. 

One obvious back door is to be in the family that runs the company.  I have a
friend whose father owns half of two chemical companies, and another whose
father owns a corregated box company.  One of them is not even out of college
yet, and she's already buying her second new car.  Did your friends perhaps
marry into a rich family?

> 	my degree is in physics and i've worked the past 2 years doing software
>design, electronics systems and general interfacing work for a research
>lab in the physics department. these guys claim with my experience in
>computer programming and hardware systems a job in the computer industry
>would be no problem, but i've always thought unless you have a masters
>in computer science or engineering most places aren't interested. 

I used to be in a software group that hired a physics major to do programming.
He didn't like it though, and transferred as soon as he got the chance.  Most
of the other people in the group were electrical engineers.  At least one of
them got sick of software and left also.  I'm sure you could get a job in the
computer industry, but do you really want to?

>	musings apppreciated....
>
>thanks in advance
>	vic spicer
>         

vspicer@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
>hi net world
>	i am interested in the current thread on formal programming education.
>some associates from high school have *claimed* (note i have problems
>swallowing this) that they have held major programming and marketing jobs
>in the industry with just high school education.
>	one fellow claimed to have worked as the product manager for a major
>software publisher/distributor, the other claims to have worked for litton
>systems (a canadian defence contractor) and the department of defence. both
>say they were making in excess of $100k a year since they were 17. 
>	this strikes me as being completely nuts, but they say there are
>"back doors" into most corporations where "ability" is worth more than
>formal training. 
> 	my degree is in physics and i've worked the past 2 years doing software
>design, electronics systems and general interfacing work for a research
>lab in the physics department. these guys claim with my experience in
>computer programming and hardware systems a job in the computer industry
>would be no problem, but i've always thought unless you have a masters
>in computer science or engineering most places aren't interested. 
>	musings apppreciated....

I suppose it's possible to make a hundred grand straight out of
high school, but it's getting less and less likely.  The computer
industry is speeding up, just like every other big business --
it takes too much time to see if somebody actually has any ability,
so employers take shortcuts (like checking for a masters) when hiring.
(This means they end up with a lot of formally educated people, by the
way, not a lot of able people.)
	I graduated with a BA in Political Science (and STOP laughing,
dammit) but I managed to wiggle in a back door and am merrily working at
in a programming job.  I'm not making a hundred grand, but I think I'm
doing a fair job of impressing people, especially for someone "without
a computer degree."  But I also know that I wouldn't have gotten the
job if I hadn't gone by the back door.
	There's three ways to get hired by a big computer company:

	o  Have a back door (a friend, an intership, a lot of related
	   experience...)
	o  Have a degree
	o  Have the guts to go and found your own company
	   (Bill Gates only has a high school diploma, too...)

-- 
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 Greg "Maddog" Knauss                      My boss doesn't know I'm doing this,
 greg@{duke|godzilla}.quotron.com                so I doubt he'd agree with me.
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