🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Jan5.102421.804@doug.cae.wisc.edu> cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower) writes:
>
>Are foxes primarily nocturnal? I've had one poking around my yard for
>about a week (eating grapes). Yesterday it came into the yard when three
>of my Irish Wolfhounds were out - which seemed pretty foolish. Rather
>than risking the dogs getting bit by this small, sneaky creature (I
>suspect it killed a number of my chickens earlier this year) - I shot
>it. 

WHY?? WHY??  I don't know where you're at, but since it was eating
grapes, it was probably a grey fox.  Shooting it was probably illegal
as foxes are protected as furbearers in most states and you need
licenses and such to kill them.  Furthermore, many species of foxes
(and some subspecies and various populations) are protected as state
or federal endangered species.  Do you shoot every sneaky creature?

This shoot-first-ask-later behavior really fries my butt (to put it as
kindly as I can).  It reflects poorly on all of us who hunt, or are
lucky enough to live on a farm or out in the country with the
"red-necks" and "country bumpkins" and other folk with undeserved
reputations for plugging everything that moves.

Wildlife are the property of the public.  They aren't yours to shoot
as you damn well please.

Maybe a fox, maybe even THIS fox, got your chickens.  Who knows?  Keep
them penned and/or in a tight coop, and you won't have that problem
and you won't be tempting wildlife to hang around your property.  If
you've got a wildlife problem, there are places to go for assistance.
Lots of places, and lots of people can help.  Try, County conservation
officers if you've got them, the USFW coop unit at your state-land
grant institution (if there is a unit for your state).  The wildlife
extention person in the Fish and Wildlife or whatever department at
the same state institution, The federal Animal Damage Control (in AZ,
they love to shoot everything), your equivalent of the Dept. of
Natural Resources... etc.  Surely, you can find someone that can tell
you at least what is legal - if not ethical.

>I'm wondering if it could have been rabid? I live in an area where
>rabies is very active in skunks. I've never seen a fox so active during
>the day - I shot it just after noon. 
>

Yep. Could have been rabid... like every species of mammal on earth.
That includes mice, squirrels, horses, dogs, cats, coons, you name it,
even foxes.  In some states, DAIRY COWS (Pennsylvania if I remember
correctly) are the number one victim of rabies.  If you want to be
sure about protection from rabies, shoot them all!!

Furthermore, you CANNOT diagnose rabies behaviorally.  The slobbering
staggering etc. behavioral symptoms of lore, do not occur until the
very last stages when the animal is about to die anyway.  Often, it
does not occur at all!!

There is simply no excuse for shooting any animal just because it
isn't afraid of your dog.  No squirrel or rabbit is afraid of my
golden unless it is bearing down at full speed.  Even then, they pay
no mind until they absolutely have to.  Should I shoot them all??

Needless to say, I really resent this type of attitude.  I'm not a big
believer in following every law every written, but they make a pretty
good guideline I think.  If you want to hunt a fox, then by all means
hunt one as allowed.  If you want to shoot one out the kitchen window
because its sneaky, might - just might - have killed your precious
chickens, or because it is not afraid of of your dog, then I'm for
taking your guns away, as that sort of attitude endangers the rights
of the rest of us to hunt, see wildlife, or whatever.  It is people
that do this that give the animal rights folks everything they want in
the way of examples.


>I didn't skin it, but did save the tail. 

Wonderful..  Is that what you really wanted all along?

>
>thanks...rich 

I'll quit now.  I'm sorry if I offended anyone because I sound rather
harsh.  I tried to temper my comments at least a little, but I want to
make very clear that I am very very very much against this kind of
thing.

I do not apologize if my perspective offends anyone.  
Brent J. Danielson
-- 
Jessie@iastate.edu                                           Brent J. Danielson
515-294-5248                                               Dept. Animal Ecology
                                                          Iowa State University
                                                            Ames, IA 50011-3221

In article <1993Jan5.102421.804@doug.cae.wisc.edu> Rich Cower,
cower@SSD.intel.com writes:
>
>Are foxes primarily nocturnal? I've had one poking around my yard for
>about a week (eating grapes). Yesterday it came into the yard when three
>of my Irish Wolfhounds were out - which seemed pretty foolish. Rather
>than risking the dogs getting bit by this small, sneaky creature (I
>suspect it killed a number of my chickens earlier this year) - I shot
>it. 
>
>I'm wondering if it could have been rabid? I live in an area where
>rabies is very active in skunks. I've never seen a fox so active during
>the day - I shot it just after noon. 
>
>I didn't skin it, but did save the tail. 
>
>thanks...rich 

Well there is always a chance it was rabid but I would guess that it
was not.  I just finished working on a research project with radio
telemetry on reds and grays in NC and they are plenty active in the
daytime esp. if they are hungry or just bored :-).

I don't think the fox would have hurt the dogs.  Hey if you had a
local fur buyer it could have been an easy $10 or so.  I would check
out you local hunting regs first tho.  :-).  Personally I like to
watch the little guys because they do some really neat stuff.  But
then my masters thesis depends on it and I don't presently have
chickens :-).

Maybe you should read "Red Foxes: The Catlike Canine" by J. David
Henry.  Fast reading, good science, and a little suprise.  

EVerette

In article: <1993Jan5.102421.804@doug.cae.wisc.edu>

Rich says:

rc>Are foxes primarily nocturnal? I've had one poking around my yard for
rcabout a week (eating grapes). Yesterday it came into the yard when three
rc>cof my Irish Wolfhounds were out - which seemed pretty foolish. Rather
rc>than risking the dogs getting bit by this small, sneaky creature (I
rc>suspect it killed a number of my chickens earlier this year) - I shot
rc>it.
rc>
rc>I'm wondering if it could have been rabid? I live in an area where
rc>rabies is very active in skunks. I've never seen a fox so active during
rc>the day - I shot it just after noon.
rc>
rc>I didn't skin it, but did save the tail.
rc>
rc>thanks...rich

Bummer for the fox, huh?  While I suppose that fox _could_ have been
rabid diurnal activity certainly is _not_ an indicator of rabidity in
foxes.  I cannot remember offhand, but I _think_ both grey and red
foxes tend to be crepuscular (dusk & dawn) or diurnal rather than
nocturnal.

I have frequently seen both grey and red foxes at various hours during
the day, in states as varied as North Carolina and Colorado.

One of my greatest pleasures these days is seeing the red foxes which
live by (an amazingly-still-standing-in-this-develop-at-all-costs-state) hay
field.  My wife and I both tend to mark our weeks by our sightings of
these red foxes out hunting by the interstate--we usually spot them
several times a week, between 0700 and 1300 hours.  Don't look a bit
rabid to me, just look like foxes, out doing their business.

bws
--
**************************************************************************
bws20@amail.amdahl.com      the human heart holds hidden treasures,
brian wesley simmons          in secret kept, in silence sealed
**************************************************************************

In article <1993Jan5.102421.804@doug.cae.wisc.edu> cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower) writes:
>
>Are foxes primarily nocturnal? I've had one poking around my yard for
>about a week (eating grapes). Yesterday it came into the yard when three
>of my Irish Wolfhounds were out - which seemed pretty foolish. Rather
>than risking the dogs getting bit by this small, sneaky creature (I
>suspect it killed a number of my chickens earlier this year) - I shot
>it. 
>
>I'm wondering if it could have been rabid? I live in an area where
>rabies is very active in skunks. I've never seen a fox so active during
>the day - I shot it just after noon. 
>
>I didn't skin it, but did save the tail. 
>
>thanks...rich 

I cannot say about theoretically but practically speaking we have seen
them at all times of the day in our area.

As our Wildlife people told me, foxes that are unusually bold around
areas inhabited by humans were probably raised as pets and then turned
loose when their owners tired of them or became intimidated by them.
We had the same problem of a very bold fox which stole chickens from
behind our backs as we stood in our yard. The wildlife people told me
that because of its lack of fear of humans the only practical way to
stop the problem would be to shoot it, so you did the right thing.

As for its being diseased, that is always a possibility but a pretty
low one. Also, rabies is not the only disease that would make a wild,
or even a domestic, animals act strangely. One of the more common
ones, more common than rabies, is distemper. According to the agent I
talked to about another fox a couple of years earlier that just laid
down and died in our field, even a trained individual cannot
distinguish between the two diseases based just on the physical
behavior. That is why they are adamant about having the brain for
testing. What I found somewhat distressing was that they will not test
such animals unless there was a possible transmission. Apparently the
tests are expensive.

geoff kotzar