🚀 go-pugleaf

lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) writes:
: First of all, every bit of this stuff is dangerous. Of *COURSE* you can
: blow your head off. Haven't you been told?
: 
: That said, I followed a similar procedure years ago. I wasn't trying to
: get RDX. I didn't know *WHAT* I was trying to get. Nevertheless, I *DID*
: get RDX, and here I am alive and telling you about it. Testimonials, of
: course, are statistically useless - very small N here. 
: 
: Keep the temperature low. Make sure the acid is fresh. Cut down on the
: amount - Hey! 50g will set you some kinda FREE if it goes!

I agree. Even 1 gram can cause lots of grief - unless proper precautions
are taken.

The problem of making RDX by this field expedient method is that the yield
is low. There are also a number of other by-products that may be produced.
These are HMX, DPT, BSX and others. The reaction also produces a lot of
formaldehyde. Some of these byproducts attack the RDX, and make it unstable.

: With these simple precautions, it's merely *EXQUISITELY* dangerous and
: it's usually felonious too. 

: BTW, I had trouble drying the stuff. Anyone else solve that problem?
: Just curious.

You can purify it by disolving in 70% nitric acid - precipitate by adding
water. It is poorly soluble in cold ethanol - you could try washing the
precipitate with that. You cannot dry it over sulfuric acid, as the acid
attacks the RDX, causing it to deteriorate. I could probably dig in the
literature, and find what is used commercially, but I doubt if it worth
the effort.

Bill

 It has been said that RDX is the explosive of choice for anarchists and
terrorists alike. Probably because of its high explosive nature, alongside
its ease in preparation. I might add that hexamethyltetramine is easilly
prepared by allowing a mixture of ammonia and formaldehyde solutions to
evaporate. Stoichiometry isn't critical as both reactants are gasses, but
I would try for a 3:2 formaldehyde/ammonia ratio.

St. Anthony

--
          / N \   O                   Mi vsi smo krizhani,
         |   \ |  || Ph               chlani izbrani
         |   | |_O-C-C-OH             mesarskega ceha...
BZ        \ / /      Ph                            aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu

aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom) wrote in rec.pyrotechnics:
> It has been said that RDX is the explosive of choice for anarchists and
> terrorists alike.

Often said by morons.  Anarchism is a movement for social change, and as
the title of one anarchist pamphlet puts it, "you can't blow up a social
relationship".  (The subtitle is "The anarchist case against terrorism":
it was produced by a group in Queensland.  Since it was never widely
circulated, I'll send a copy to anyone with an OCR who is prepared to
scan it in and make it available over the net).

The point of anarchism is doing away with power relationships like those
between bosses and workers, priests and worshippers, governments and
subjects, husbands and wives, adults and children.  Ultimately the way
for a worker to get rid of a boss is just to stop him *being* a boss:
that cannot generally involve stopping him existing by blowing him to
dogfood, though *some* (a very small minority) of anarchists have thought
that setting an example along those lines might be a useful tactical step:
"propaganda by the deed", it was called, and even the people who believed
in it never assumed it would have any other function than to act as an
inspiration to workers in a wider struggle.  The final step is just to stop
obeying bosses.

An interesting book on the political realities of propagandizing with high
explosive is Louis Adamic's "Dynamite" (Rebel Press), a history of sabotage
in the USA.  Turns out that, over the last 100 years, the organization most
given to nitro-group politics (the state apart, of course) was of all people
the AFL between WW1 and WW2.  Read the book to find out why.

Followups redirected to a more sensible place.  Rec.pyrotechnics is going
through a bad patch with this sort of mad-bomber stuff right now (as if
napalm had anything to do with pyrotechnics!): please don't cross-post there.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp

aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom) writes:
>
>its ease in preparation. I might add that hexamethyltetramine is easilly
>prepared by allowing a mixture of ammonia and formaldehyde solutions to
>evaporate. Stoichiometry isn't critical as both reactants are gasses, but
>I would try for a 3:2 formaldehyde/ammonia ratio.
>

Please excuse my ignorance, but I had understood hexamethyltetramine to be
the substance I buy for my dry-fuel campstove, or "Esbit Cooker".  I haven't
bought any for years, but it is small (about two cubic inches or less) cakes
of crumbly resin-like stuff, usually white with a bit of yellow color if
it's pretty old.  It lights easily with a match and burns quite slowly
and fairly cleanly if the ventilation is good.  I believe this was standard
issue to soldiers of some WW2 armies.  A piece about 3" x 2" x 0.3" 
(as I recall) burns for nearly half an hour (slightly quicker if broken)
and is about enough to boil a quart of cold water.

More recently, I've acquired a few tiny cakes as fuel for a Stirling engine
kit from Edmund Scientific.

This stuff isn't very "pyrotechnic" by most people's standards.  If it's
not hexamethyltetramine, does any one know what it *is*?

I haven't been a regular reader of this group, but I'll watch for a while 
to see if anyone's familiar with this stuff.  If it *is* a form of the
chemical described above, would it be a useful 'raw' material?

	Bob

In article <1993Jan10.212112.18941@netcom.com>, obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) writes:
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance, but I had understood hexamethyltetramine to be
> the substance I buy for my dry-fuel campstove, or "Esbit Cooker".  I haven't
> kit from Edmund Scientific.

deleted...

> This stuff isn't very "pyrotechnic" by most people's standards.  If it's
> not hexamethyltetramine, does any one know what it *is*?

It is just plain Hexamine.

> I haven't been a regular reader of this group, but I'll watch for a while 
> to see if anyone's familiar with this stuff.  If it *is* a form of the
> chemical described above, would it be a useful 'raw' material?
> 
> 	Bob

HMTD can be made from it.

In article <1993Jan10.212112.18941@netcom.com>, obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) writes:
|> 
|> Please excuse my ignorance, but I had understood hexamethyltetramine to be
|> the substance I buy for my dry-fuel campstove, or "Esbit Cooker".  I haven't
|> bought any for years, but it is small (about two cubic inches or less) cakes
|> of crumbly resin-like stuff, usually white with a bit of yellow color if
|> it's pretty old.  It lights easily with a match and burns quite slowly
|> and fairly cleanly if the ventilation is good.  I believe this was standard
|> issue to soldiers of some WW2 armies.  A piece about 3" x 2" x 0.3" 
|> (as I recall) burns for nearly half an hour (slightly quicker if broken)
|> and is about enough to boil a quart of cold water.
|> 
|> More recently, I've acquired a few tiny cakes as fuel for a Stirling engine
|> kit from Edmund Scientific.
|> 
|> This stuff isn't very "pyrotechnic" by most people's standards.  If it's
|> not hexamethyltetramine, does any one know what it *is*?
|> 
|> I haven't been a regular reader of this group, but I'll watch for a while 
|> to see if anyone's familiar with this stuff.  If it *is* a form of the
|> chemical described above, would it be a useful 'raw' material?
|> 
|> 	Bob

Yes, what you have described is infact hexamethylenetetramine, a molecule
with a tetrahedral structure formed from mixing a formaldehyde solution with an
ammonia solution. At the corner of the tetrahedral structure lurks a nitrogen
atom which is joined to a CH2 group along the sides. It is otherwise known as
Hexamine and Urotropine and is commonly used in organic chemistry and as 
heat tablets. It is available at both chemists and camping stores and
is used in the manufacture of the explosives; RDX, HMX, HMTD and various
other derivatives. All of these explosives are very powerful, some are
very unstable and others are terribly carcinogenic.

I don't know about RDX being the choice anarchists explosive. It is easy to
synthesise if you know what you're doing, but getting access to enough
nitric acid (sg 1.5-1.52) can be a bit troublesome. It would take a
very dedicated anarchist who can synthesise such an explosive in bulk.
Anyway, where you see anarchist, read terrorist and their mainstay explosive
would seem to be AN based such as ANFO. You can't beat ANFO in performance/
cost ratio and it can be used in very large quantities (hundreds of kg) with
relative safety.

Mark.