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Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part2


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 2:  WHEELS, BEARINGS, AND BRAKES
 
 
                                 Inline Wheels
                                 -------------
                             (written May 17, 1992)
                          (last changed Sept 10, 1992)
 
 
TECHNICAL INFO
 
Inline wheels are made of polyurethane.   Although wheels are classified 
on three criteria: diameter, durometer (hardness), and rebound, you will 
usually see only the diameter and durometer marked on the wheels and/or 
packaging (e.g.,76mm 78A, or 70mm 82A, etc.).
 
 
DIAMETER
 
The diameter of the wheel is basically how tall the wheel is.  The usual
diameters are 80mm, 77mm, 76mm, 72.5mm, 72mm, and 70mm.  More recently, 
82mm wheels have been introduced.  Generally, racing skates will fit up 
to 82mm wheels, high-end skates up to 77mm, and the rest of the models 
up to 72.5mm.  Although these are the designed ranges, skates can take 
slightly taller wheels than what they're supposed to.  For instance, the 
Bauer XF/3's, with the front and heel wheel spacers moved in (for a 
shortened wheelbase), can use 76mm wheels for all four positions.  
Extension modification (i.e., scraping down) of skates are need for 
wheels much larger than the intended size.
 
Although still subject to some technical debate, in general, taller 
wheels will let you go faster (i.e., 76mm are faster than 70mm) but 
there is a point where taller wheels will only make you go slower with 
added weight (harder to start rolling) and less manueverability.
 
Shorter wheels are cheaper, but in general don't last as long since they 
have less material to wear down overall.
 
 
DUROMETER (hardness):
 
Durometer is a relative hardness measure frequently used for rubber and 
plastic products.  There are several scales, with the "A" scale (hence 
the 78A, etc.) used for wheels.  The number is the rating from 0-100, 
with 0 being no resistance and 100 being very hard plastic.
 
Inline wheels generally run from 74A to 93A, with 78A, 82A, and 85A 
being the most common.  For outdoors, the softer the wheel, the better 
the shock absorption on bumps, cracks, pebbles and other vibrations.  
The trade-off is that softer wheels last a shorter time.  Harder wheels, 
since they have less drag, are preferred on indoor surfaces which are 
usually very smooth.
 
Hockey players may prefer harder wheels because it allows them to slide
somewhat.
 
 
Rebound:
This is how much the wheel will return the energy when your wheels are
compressed.  So a higher rebound, will provide more response on each 
stroke.  There doesn't seem to be a rebound scale (is there?) as there 
is for durometer.
 
 
HUBS
 
The hubs are very important to the overall performance of the wheel.  
Hubs which are too large will not hold the bearings tightly enough.  
This can allow the wheel to become "cocked" so that it rubs against the 
frame.  Only one wheel needs to be out of alignment to mess things up.
 
This is a serious problem, not only because it causes drag, but because 
it heats up the wheel which will soon cause it to seperate from the hub 
and expand, which will very soon destroy the wheel.
 
I have noticed this on several sets of Kryptonics Turbocores.  The
first sign is that the wheels creak as you switch your weight on the 
skate. And if you remover the wheel from the frame, there will be a arc 
clear of dirt and dust where the wheel was rubbing.
 
If you notice this, put your hands on your wheels after a long fast 
skate and see if any of them are much warmer than the others.  If so, 
they are probably rubbing.
 
This can happen a lot easier on frames like the Mogema and the Darkstar 
that have very close tolerences and the side of the frame is close to 
the side of the wheel.  I'm not sure if is as big as a problem (or a 
problem at all) for recreational skates like the Areoblade.  But the 
creaking is bothersome in any event.
 
 
AXLE KITS
 
Another important aspect of your wheels is the axles that go with them.  
There are several axle replacement kits (such as the Hyper Hop-up Kit 
and the Blading Edge Kit) designed to let your wheels roll much faster 
than with your stock axles. These kits are usually made of aluminium and 
steel.  What they consist of is two axles per wheel, each screwing into 
the threaded bushing in the wheel. This also prevents overtightening, 
which is common with the regular axle system.  When putting your wheels 
back, make sure the wheels are just snug enough so they don't move 
around.  Anything more just increases the friction on your bearings.
 
 
MAINTENANCE
 
Wheels of any durometer will wear out, given enough mileage.  There's 
only so much polyurethane on your wheels, while there's thousands of 
miles of asphalt out there (a slightly different story for indoor 
skating, but wearage occur nevertheless).  Your wheels are due for 
maintenance when your skates are much  slower and not rolling as 
smoothly as when new.  The inside edges will wear more quickly, which 
you will eventually notice.
 
There are two things to do to increase the life of your wheels:  rotate 
them and flip them.  Rotating your wheels means to switch the positions 
of the wheels.  Different positions (like the heel or toe wheels) 
receive varying amounts of wear.  By rotating the wheels, you can even 
out the wear each wheel receives.
 
Flipping your wheels means to turn each wheel so that the worn edge now 
faces the outside.  This lets you wear down the other portion of the 
wheels.
 
There are several patterns for wheel rotation.  The one you use isn't 
crucial.  The main point is to maintain an even wear on your wheels and 
to extend the amount of mileage you can get.  Feel free to swap wheels 
until you feel you have a good distribution on your skates.
 
Some rotation patterns:
 
The front wheel is "1" and the back wheel is either "4" or "5".
 
For 3-wheel skates:  3->2, 2->1, 1->3
 
For 4-wheel skates:  4<->2, 3<->1                   OR     4->3 3->2 2-
>1 1->4
 
For 5-wheel skates:  5->3, 4->2, 3->1, 2->5, 1->4   OR   5->3, 4->5, 3-
>2, 2->4 
 
In addition to rotating and flipping your wheels, you should also wipe 
off your skates, rails, wheels and bearings with a damp cloth.  This 
keeps the amount of dirt on your skates and wheels to a minimum.
 
 
ROCKERING YOUR SKATES
 
Having skates non-rockered means the axles and wheels are all at the 
same height This is the way the skates come when you buy then.  What 
many skates allow you  to do is to change the height of some or all of 
the axles, to provide a different "blade" to skate on.  Rockered skates 
then, have the middle two wheels lower relative to the front and heel 
wheels.  This is accomplished by having oval spacers with an offset 
axle-hole.  So each spacer can have an up or down position.
 
Racing skates are also adjustable, but only in the horizontal direction,
allowing for a longer or shorter wheelbase.
 
Although subject to some disagreement, many skaters find rockering 
provides much more maneuverability due to the curved "blade" of the 
wheels.  Whether you rocker or not is really up to you.  Many hockey 
players prefer to have their skates rockered for sharper turns on the 
court, while racers keep their blades flat for more stability at high 
speeds (rockers at high speed will produce speed wobble).  Artisitic 
skaters may also prefer rockered, while extreme skaters may 
stay flat.
 
Depending on your skates, there are various rockering configurations 
possible.  If your skates can adjust the height of only the middle two 
wheels, you can have your skates flat or rockered:
 
Flat : ==frame==
 
        1 2 3 4
 
 
Rockered: ==frame==
           1     4
             2 3
 
If your skates can adjust the height of all four wheels then you have
the positions of
 
 
short even rocker: ==frame==    (wheels closer to boot, for more 
control)
                    1      4 
                      2  3 
 
tall even rocker:  ==frame==    (taller, for sharper turns)
 
                    1       4
                      2  3
 
front-lift rocker: ==frame==    (a little more stable than regular 
rocker)
                   1
                      2  3  4
 
front-lift,      : ==frame==    (tilts skates forward)
rear-down, rocker  1
                      2  3
                            4
 
 
 
Wheels generally run from $4.25 to $8.00, depending on the quality and 
size of the wheel.  The three inline wheel manufacturers are Kryptonics, 
Inc. and Hyper Inline and Labeda.
 
==============================================================================

NEW WHEELS for '93

From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Hyper's 1993 wheel line

Here's a list of the various kinds of Hyper wheels available in 1993.  Note:
this is from their marketing literature; you may or may not be able to find
all of these wheels (particularly in all colors).

I'll include selections of the "hype" from the brochure. Your mileage may
vary.

Superlite "America's #1 preferred replacement wheel for all inline skates ...
increased traction, smoother roll ... [they'll] last longer ..."

72mm  78A teal, black, yellow, clear, pink, purple
72mm  82A teal, black, yellow, clear, pink, purple
72mm  85A black, pink, purple
72mm  93A teal, pink

76mm  78A teal, black, yellow, clear, pink, purple
76mm  82A purple, black

Redline Racing Series (tm) "Developed to win [races] ... more speed ... more
gold"

76mm  75A orange
76mm  78A yellow
76mm  82A purple
82mm  75A orange
82mm  78A yellow
82mm  82A purple

The 76mm skates are available with two different types of hubs: LS and
SS.  It's unclear from the brochure exactly what is different between
the two.

Hockey wheels "H-250 [wheel] compound for longer wear and increased slide
control. 'Big Foot' riding surface."

70mm  78A black, purple, clear, teal
70mm  82A black, purple, clear, teal
70mm  85A black, purple, clear, teal

"Fat Boys" "Fully tested for the ramp, pool, or street. Hubs are bonded
together with the 'Fat Boy' landing surface"

70mm  80A black, purple, yellow, silver
70mm  84A black, purple, yellow, silver

The brochure provides a fair number of guidelines for wheel choice.

The softer hockey wheels and the trick wheels are both welcome developments!

 
========================================================================
 
                          THE BEARING MAINTENANCE FILE
                          ----------------------------
                              (written May 2, 1992)
                           (last changed Jan 30, 1993)
                         Compiled and edited by Tony Chen
 
Contents:
* General Info
* Sealed or Shielded?
* Bearing ratings
* How to maintain your bearings
  1st method : If you don't mind taking off the seals.
  2nd method : If you don't want to pry off the seals.
 
 
GENERAL INFO
 
Inline skates all use 608 bearings.  The number means that the bearings
are from the 600 series, with a 8mm inner diameter (the width of the
hole i.e., internal bore).  The "6" appears to be for the 6mm difference 
between the inner and outer radii (from the outside edge to the edge of 
the hole).
 
608 bearings are also the standard size for skateboard bearings.  Quad
skates use either type 608 (8mm internal bore) or type 627 (7mm internal
bore).  The 608s for quads are the outdoor bearings. If your  bearings 
have letters following the "608" (like "S", "Z", or even "ZZ" or "SS") 
it is the manufacturer's way of denoting sealed or perhaps double 
shielded bearings.  To make sure what they mean you should probably
check with the manufacturer, since it varies from company to company.
 
A little cross-reference on part numbers for bearings, the 7MM ones are 
for quality indoor skates, the 8MM ones are used for in-lines, other indoor 
skates and skateboards.

Double Shielded:
	NTN	Fafnir	MRC	ND	SKF	HCH	YW
7MM	627-ZZ	37KDD	37FF	77037	R7-2Z	627Z	60027
8MM	608-ZZ	38KDD	38FF	77038	R8-2Z

Double Sealed (neoprene rubber):
	NTN	Fafnir	MRC	ND	SKF
7MM	627-LL	37PP	37ZZ	99037	R7-2RS
8MM	608-LL	38PP	38ZZ	99038	R8-2RS

Single shielded/sealed bearings usually delete one of the doubled
prefix/suffix characters.  (Thanks go to George for the above chart).

Bearings for in-lines generally come grease filled.  Some bearings like 
GMNs are sold either greased or oiled (but usually greased). 
 

SEALED OR SHIELDED?
 
There are basically two types of bearings.  Most likely you will have 
SHIELDED bearings, which most stock skates come with.  Shields will make
it hard for dirt and grime to get in, but they certainly aren't dust or 
water tight.
 
There are also SEALED bearings, which have a teflon or rubber lip seal 
that actually touches the brace, and come packed with a fairly heavy 
grease.  Rollerblade sells sealed bearings under the name Max Trainers.  
You may find other brands as well.  The advantage is that they should 
last a long time without any maintenance at all.  The trade-off is that 
these bearings generally cost more and you also encounter a much higher 
rolling resistance.  Slower bearings are not necessarily bad, since many 
people like the added resistance for a better workout.
 
 
BEARING RATINGS
 
Bearings are rated on the ABEC (the Annular Bearing Engineering Council) 
scale.NMBs are rated ABEC-1, GMNs are ABEC-3, and Powell Swiss and 
Fafnir are ABEC-5.  Buying bearings rated any higher than ABEC-5 will 
probably not do any good since they aren't be meant for use in in-lines.  
The higher precision will be lost to contaminating dust and dirt anyway.  
(If it's speed you want cutting down wind-resistance and improving your 
technique is probably a better way.)
 
Really precise bearings are only used in high speed (read: rotational) 
applications, as in machinery.  The next higher grade up from in-line
bearings are in machines which are rotating at speeds of at least
10,000 rpm which is around 80+ mph.  You probably won't want to go that 
fast on your skates 8-)  At 50,000 rpm you would be traveling 400+ mph.
So which happens first?  the wheels melting, or the skin ripping off the 
skater?  Gives new meaning to shredding 8-)
 
 
WHEN TO CLEAN AND RE-LUBRICATE YOUR BEARINGS
 
Exposure to dirt and water are the main reason that your bearings slow
down.  Bad bearings will be the ones which don't let your wheels spin
for a respectable amount of time.  If you hear or feel the vibrations 
of metal rubbing on metal, chances are, your bearings are in need of 
some maintenance.
 
If some of the balls or bearing surfaces have become roughened, there's
basically nothing you can do.  They won't get any better, but they may 
last a long time anyway.  You can always replace your bearings a few 
at a time.
 
Take care of your bearings by cleaning and preping them as needed.  
Assuming normal usage, they should last through several sets of wheels, 
depending on how much skating you do.
 
 
REPLACING YOUR BEARINGS
 
You can replace your bearings if (1) any of your bearings have somehow 
stopped spinning well, despite all the cleaning you do or (2) you want 
to change to different types of bearings (racing or sealed or whatever).
 
 
HOW TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR BEARINGS
 
1. Remove your wheels from the skates, and push the bearings out with a
   spare bushing (the plastic/metal part that goes between the bearings) 
   or one of the several types of bearing tools available on the market.
 
 
2. If you have Powell Swiss (Bones) bearings, simply pry off the 
   removable plastic cap on each bearing.  If you have NMBs, GMNs 
   (Germans), other shielded bearings, or sealed bearings, carefully 
   puncture or pry off the shield (or seal) on one side. (Some people 
   tell you to never pry off a seal, some say it's okay.  It's really up 
   to you.  Whatever you do, lubrication always helps) 
 
   When removing the covers of entire sets of bearings at once, be 
   careful to only take off one cover per bearing.  Otherwise you'll be 
   left with a shieldless/sealless bearing (which won't last long 
   against outdoor conditions).
 
   Once you have the cover off, you should be able to see the ball 
   bearings inside, held in place by a brace.  You won't need the old 
   metal covers anymore.  In Bones bearings the cap is ALSO the brace, 
   so you won't see a brace.  Bones users should obviously keep the 
   plastic cap when reassembling their bearings.
 
   You don't want to take the ball bearings out since they aren't meant 
   to be removed and replaced.
 
 
3. Soak the bearings in paint thinner, naphtha, Simple Green*, or any
   other handy solvent.  In any case, the choice of solvent isn't 
   crucial so long as you can get all the dirt and old grease cleaned 
   out.
 
   Avoid low-flash point solvents like gasoline, xylene, lacquer 
   thinner, etc. which are dangerously flammable.  Also wear latex/chem 
   lab gloves if possible.  Solvents are no fun to ingest or absorb 
   through your skin.  An alternative is to use a pair of tongs or 
   tweezers to handle your bearings.
 
   How long you soak depends on how dirty and dried out your bearings
   have gotten.  Previously maintained bearings won't need to soak very
   long.  Bearings that have gone dry and have lots of grit in them may 
   need to soak overnight, or even several days.
 
   If necessary use a brush or swirl your bearings around in your 
   container to make sure everything breaks loose.  Small coffee cans, 
   peanut jars, or even the little black film canisters you get with new 
   film, all make decent containers.  You don't really need large 
   amounts of solvent.  Just enough to immerse your bearings.  You also 
   don't need to refill with clean solvent with each bearing, unless the 
   solvent you were using has gotten really dirty.  The essential thing 
   is that the dirt and grease is broken up.  Step 4 will remove most of 
   the gunk.
   
   WD-40 is generally not recommended as a solvent since it leaves a 
   sticky, dust attracting film on the bearings.
 
   Ultrasonic cleaners is ideal for cleaning bearings.  If you have one
   or access to one, you can clean your bearings en mass and avoid 
   getting your hands dirty.

   *Simple Green.  Just soak the parts in pure Simple Green and rinse 
   with water.  Thoroughly dry everything off and lubricate immediately.  
   Simple Green is water soluble, so take care to dry it well, since it 
   can cause rust otherwise.
 
   Parts come out much cleaner and much faster than with other solvents. 
   You should stay cleaner and there are no nasty fumes to inhale. 
   Simple Green should be available in most grocery or hardware stores.
 
   

 
4. Now rinse out your bearings with hot, soapy water to make sure you 
   clear out all the solvent.  You now have some clean bearings.
 
   Clean, unlubricated bearings appear to have the lowest amount of 
   unloaded friction, but don't expect them to last very long if you 
   skate on them.   After a fairly short time, the surface of the balls 
   will start to flake   and roughen and they won't spin very well.
 
 
5. Use a hair dryer or just air/sun dry to make sure that all traces of 
   water are gone.  Using a hair dryer or basking in the sun also preps 
   the bearing nicely by heating the metal somewhat.
 
 
6. Now lubricate with your favorite lubricant.  You can use Tri-flow or 
   one of the specialty lubricants distributed for bearings.  Bones 
   bearings come with their own Speed Cream.
 
   You can use grease or oil as you prefer.  Oiled bearings have 
   slightly less resistance, but need to be maintained more often (as 
   often as once a week).  It is very helpful to have a little 
   hypodermic style oiler with a long needle to let you put the oil 
   right where you want it.
 
   Grease works well because after a while most of it gets shoved out of
   contact with the balls and only a little bit smears onto the 
   workings.  However, newly greased (or heavy oil) bearings, will take 
   a while to expel any extra grease and move the rest out of the way.
 
   For oiling, light oil, like sewing machine oil, or 5W-20 motor oil is 
   a good choice.  Household oils (3-in-one, etc) may gum up after a 
   while and the teflon-based lubricants have little particles of teflon 
   that are only in the way.
 
   Some people recommend that you use a 50-50 mixture of lighter fluid 
   and baby oil to lubricate your bearings.  This mix should result in 
   not having to clean them out as often, only lubricate more often.
 
   Let the bearings sit for an hour, and wipe them off.
 
 
7. Put one bearing back into the  wheel, with the open face towards the 
   inside of the wheel.  Insert the bushing and then put on the second 
   bearing (with the open face towards the inside again).  It is pretty 
   hard for contaminants to get into the bearings from the inside.
 
 
2ND METHOD (for keeping the shields on):
 
   First do Step 1 (from 1st Method).
 
   If your bearings are permanently sealed (or you don't want to remove
   the seals) you can still soak in solvent (see step 3) for several 
   hours or as long as you feel necessary.  Enough solvent should soak 
   through to remove some of the grease.
 
   Then you can lubricate the seams and/or press some in with your 
   fingers.  Enough oil should seep through to lubricate your bearings 
   (see step 6).
 
========================================================================
 
 
From: pae@netwise.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Message-ID: <1992Mar8.040301.26807@netwise.com>
Date: 8 Mar 92 04:03:01 GMT
 
First off, note that there are 3 types of brakes available for the Rollerblade
"square" brakes (used on current Rollerblade high-end skates -- Lightning,
Aeroblade, Racerblade, etc.):
 
	o Black Brakes. What used to come on the skates by default; what
	  dealers stock as replacement brakes by default. Marking and squeaky.
	o TRS Brakes. They gray guys. About twice as expensive. Marking.
	  Somewhat squeaky, but less than the black ones.
	o Polyurethane Brakes. These appeared near the end of the summer of
	  1991. They come in bright blue, pink, green. Priced near the price
	  of the TRS Brakes. No squeako at all (sometimes, they hum -- it's
	  kind of nice). No marking at all. By my metric, they last longer
	  than the Black guys but not quite as long as the TRS Brakes. The
	  braking action is a bit grabby; some may view this as a problem.
 
WRT brake life, I'm sure you'll get some subjective opinions. However, I have
never observed the Poly brakes crumbling and coming off in chunks. Remember,
the wheels are just polyurethane, too -- do you see them come off in chunks?
It might be possible to lose chunks of polyurethane on extremely rough roads;
I'd recommend avoiding such surfaces.
							
=END OF PART 2==================================================================

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part3


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 3:  (ROLLER)HOCKEY (draft)
 
Contents:
- general hockey FAQ
- info on sticks
 
================================================================================
 
                        Inline Hockey FAQ File
                        """"""""""""""""""""""
 
This file reflects the observations of our small group's trial-and-error
approach to organizing and playing hockey on inline skates, as well as
advice from other rec.skate and rec.sport.hockey readers.  We've done a
lot of experimenting with gear, play, etc. and it is hoped that our
experiences will be helpful to others getting involved in this fun and
fast-paced sport.
 
Tony Chen, our besieged FAQ administrator here on rec.skate, has been good
enough to take responsibility for posting this FAQ along with the other,
less colloquial ones, being a more responsible person than myself.  So you
are invited to Email him with praise.  If, however, you have comments or
additions to the hockey FAQ, Email them to me at darling@cellar.org.
 
                                                    Thomas Darling (RW)
 
 
GEAR """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
_________
Sticks //  Many of our players use standard street hockey sticks, with
______//  wooden shafts and plastic blades.  These seem to survive the
surface with minimal wear.  However, those more experienced players
(former ice hockey players all) prefer wooden ice hockey sticks, with taped
blades, for superior puck control.  These obviously wear down a lot
faster than on ice, being scraped across concrete and leant on for power
turns.  Once the blade is taped, a razor is used to trim off the bottom 1cm
or so to prevent fraying.
 
Perhaps the benefits of wooden ice hockey sticks are predominantly
psychological, based on the familiarity factor.  But to those of us who
use them, they "feel" better and therefore give us better results.
 
If you decide to use a plastic-bladed street hockey stick, you should
make sure to get one long enough for you to use when on your skates;
most street hockey sticks are designed to be used on foot.  There are many
schools of thought on determining stick length, which like anything else,
eventually comes down to matters of personal preference and style of play.
But as a rule of thumb for beginners, try to get a stick that comes up to
somewhere between your chin and nose.  You can always cut it later if you
wish.
 
Todd <TODD@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu> offers these additional suggestions:
 
"I work closely with some friends [who] own a Hockey store out here in
the San Jose/San Francisco area; we have used several different types of
sticks on the street surfaces.  One of the best sticks to use on any
street surface is the KOHO 2200 Ultimate, with a poly-tech blade on the
end of a wooden hockey stick.  It does not wear thin as quick as a mylec
stick... Easton makes an aluminum street hockey stick...it is a good
stick, but not better than regular hockey aluminum versions... The last
stick to try is the Bauer Street Hockey stick: all wood with a poly-tech
blade on the end, just for street hockey use."
 
"Mylec blades, you can go through 1-2 a month if playing 3-4 times a week.
I've gone that route too."
 
And this from Michael Quinn <MJQUINN@pucc.princeton.edu>:"For a stick, I
used an old ice hockey stick with a plastic replacement
blade.  Incidentally, I was up in Boston last week and saw a neat looking
rubber brake that screws onto the shaft of a hockey stick near the blade.
I didn't get a chance to try one out though.  They sell them at Sports
Etc. on Massachusetts Avenue in Arlington."
 
Comments from anyone who has tried this stick-mounted brake would be
appreciated.
________
Pucks //  Sun Hockey makes a nifty three-wheeled puck called the "Hot
_____//  Puck."  The puck is hard rubber, and the "wheels" are three teflon
balls that protrude through the top and bottom.  Advantages: It appears to
be regulation size and weight, and it feels great against the stick.  It's
an extremely cool design.  Disadvantage: It doesn't work.  Even on the most
ideal surface (we tried it on a tennis court-type deck), it bounces,
flips, and ends up rolling on its edge more than on the "wheels."  I really
wish they'd come up with a better functioning design, because the feel and
idea are sound.
 
Since the Sun puck doesn't happen, we use Mylec street hockey balls.  They
come in three different colours, coded for different temperatures.  The
orange one works best so far; minimal bounce, but a bit light.  Be
aware that the temperature type of the puck is important; we've heard
of a warm-weather ball that shattered when used in cold weather.
 
Also be aware that there are cheaper balls out there, and some of them
suuuuuuck.  We've even encountered one that was unevenly weighted and
textured.  Not good.  Since the Mylec balls are only a couple of dollars,
there's no reason not to get the real thing.
 
Nobody's completely happy with this compromise, but it's the best option
we've seen so far for outside play.
 
As for inside play, Marc <mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu> adds:
 
"When we play outside, we usually use an orange Mylec, but it bounces too
much for inside play so there we use a Viceroy, which also weighs about
twice as much.  They are made in Canada, and I don't know where you might
get them other than a good well stocked hockey shop.  We all tend to use
the Viceroy in tournaments."
__________
Padding //  Checking is a bit less frequent in the inline game, which
_______//  is good, because the summer heat makes heavy padding out of the
question.  Hardshell knee pads are a necessity, because everyone
occasionally collides with the boards or the ground.  Elbow pads are also
highly recommended.
 
Those nifty wristguards are probably a good idea for skating and training,
but for all practical purposes it is impossible to hold a hockey stick with
them.  This is OK, because you can use the stick to break your fall in many
circumstances, and you can't build up huge speeds in a small rink anyway.
 
Opinions vary on hand protection.  Some players prefer ice hockey gloves.
They provide superb protection against sticks, decent padding for when you
get crunched, and enough finger coverage to make hand passes safe.  On the
other hand, they tend to be very hot.  Many of us opt instead for
weightlifting gloves, the fingerless mesh kind with leather palms.  These
allow your hands to stay cool, yet prevent the loss of skin when you're
knocked sprawling.  They allow good stick control.  Just don't go grabbing
the puck with 'em, lest your fingers be rolled over/chopped off.
 
(Note: Weightlifting gloves are difficult to dramatically throw down.  So
if you get into a violent confrontation, you may incur a few bruises while
trying frantically to peel them off.  If you play this way, be careful.)
 
Another option is to use a cheap pair of Nylon hockey gloves.  They're
still a bit warm, but considerably lighter than leather gloves and you're
less apt to be concerned about beating them up.
_________________
Eye Protection //  It's always been too hot to wear my helmet.  Ray-Bans
______________//  look cool, and are better than nothing.  Use one of those
goofy ShadeStraps so they don't go flying when you get cross-checked from
behind.
______________
Goalie Gear //  A good mask is essential, regardless of puck type.  Either
___________//  a cage-type ice hockey mask or an inexpensive Mylec mask
will do.  An ice hockey stick is highly recommended, since they tend to be
larger than their street hockey counterparts.  Any variety of blocker will
suffice.  If you're playing with a ball of some kind rather than a puck,
we've found that using a baseball glove for a catcher will give good
results.
 
In regards to leg pads, the cheapest Mylec ones appear to work the best.
Since they're made of hard plastic, a goalie can slide on his knees in
them, which improves effectiveness.
 
Marc [usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu], a Texas hockey veteran, adds:
"When I goalie I usually wear a cage helmet (since I wear glasses), elbow
pads, a blocker on the right hand and a catcher's mitt in the left, a
catcher's chest protector on my chest and belly (with my Dead Wings jersey
over that), a cup and the Mylec leg pads, along with the skates.  I
usually wear a t-shirt under the chest pad, also.  I've suited up like
that twice a week all summer down here and have lost about 10 pounds.
Most other goalies in the Metroplex use either a large softball mitt or a
regular goalie's mitt, but I had the catcher's mitt to begin with and
find that I am used to it and can't use a regular glove very well."
 
SKATES """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
__________________
Choice of Skate //  ...depends on playing style and the ever-important ice-
_______________//  hockey familiarity factor.  As an ice-hockey player, I
use Bauer XS/5's with the brake removed.  They're all laces, no buckles,
and are nice and light.  They've got good bearings (hence decent speed)
and strong frames.
 
The most popular skate among our skaters is the Rollerblade Zetra 303.
It's a little heavy and clunky, but has an extremely durable boot, which is
good if you like to plant yourself in front of the goalie and get your
ankles whacked at a lot.
 
I also might recommend the Gretzky Ultra Wings.  They're all buckles and
kind of heavy, but durable enough to stand up to hockey abuse.
 
The bottom line, really, is that you can make do with what you've got.  One
of our best players uses el cheapo skates (Phantoms?), yet still manages to
come up with the breakaways and finesse plays.
____________
Rockering //  None of us rocker our frames.  I know that every book in
_________//  the world says that you should rocker them for hockey, but
the difference in turning ability (especially at high speeds) is
negligible.  All that appeared to be seriously affected were speed,
traction and stability, none for the better.
_________
Wheels //  So far, we haven't experimented greatly with different wheels.
______//  I've used both hard and soft, and liked the hard ones better,
since they last longer and feel better on grinding stops and turns.
Rollerblade makes a "Hockey Wheel" with better perimeter width (to reflect
the need for stopping/turning over straightaway speed), but since they're
hubless and generally cheap-looking, nobody has picked any up yet.  Any
comments on these wheels would be welcome.
 
We've heard that "Turbo Core" type wheels (with spokes instead of solid
hubs) don't stand up to the stresses of hockey well.  Those skaters I know
who use such wheels have reported no problems, but the net.consensus on
this is that "spoke" breakage does happen, so it bears repeating here.
 
TECHNIQUES """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
____________________
Stick Turns/Stops //  Many of us ice-hockey players are aggrivated by
_________________//  the limited turning and stopping ability of inline
skates.  A typical drag stop (rear foot 90 degrees against leading foot)
works in most circumstances.  But another good technique is the stick
stop.
 
In this stop, the skater begins a tight turn towards his stick side.  For
this example, we'll use a right-handed skater.  Right foot forward, he
makes a tight turn, putting his stick blade down (to the right) in the
process.  He leans against the stick, grinding his left foot outwards,
until coming to a stop.  With practice, one can even hang onto the puck
while executing this stop.
 
Sometimes, when going very fast, I find that I must crouch low to keep
pressure on the outer foot -- often to such a degree that the boot, instead
of the wheels, makes contact with the ground.  This gets good results, but
is not recommended for less durable boots.
 
The same technique is used in the stick turn.  The skater uses the same
combination of tight turn and stick friction, but instead of using the
stick as a mere brake, uses it as a pivot point to make a tighter turn and
continue on in a new direction.
____________________
Goalie Techniques //  The best bet for goalies, in many cases, is simply
_________________//  not to wear skates.  A sneakered goalie has
side-to-side mobility and backwards control that are difficult to match on
skates of any kind.  As long as the goalie doesn't leave the crease for
extended periods (i.e. Ron Hextall lead-the-rush-up-ice maneuvres), this
makes for fair and fun gameplay.
 
As previously mentioned, hard plastic Mylec street hockey leg pads are
recommended.  A good goalie can fearlessly slide about in them, making for
a more ice-like game.
 
 
SURFACES """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
Generally speaking, you're stuck with whatever your area offers.  For
economical reasons, we've been playing on street-hockey decks, which have
asphalt or cement surfaces and decent boards all around.  One such surface
is quite good; very smooth cement approaching tennis court quality.  It's a
decent drive for most of us, but worth it; we've played on a rougher
surface and it's exhausting.
 
There are also commercial venues available in our area.  One huge indoor
facility has a perfect surface, good nets, an electronic scoreboard, you
name it.  It's also $70/hour, but with enough people playing a real game,
this can be cost-effective.  I imagine similar facilities exist in most
major metropolitan areas.
 
 
RULES """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
Our goal is to be as ice hockey-like as possible.  In the reduced size of
most street-hockey decks, 4 skaters per side is probably the realistic
maximum.  And we'd like to someday have enough players for full 60-minute
change-on-the-fly games, but for the time being it looks like three 10
minute periods with no line changes and frequent timeouts.
 
When we can, we aspire to NHL rules.  With 10-minute periods, half-length
penalties are probably best (1 minute or 2.5 minutes).  Enforcement of
offsides and icing are a matter of taste; they make for less fluid gameplay
and are a distraction for single refs without benefit of linesmen.  I'd be
interested in hearing how other players deal with this.
 
Best of luck to anyone getting started in the game; may you find all the
players you need and a prime surface.  If you live in the Philadelphia/
South Jersey area, we invite you to join us!  Interested parties can Email
me directly, or reach me on the Cellar BBS (the number is in my .sig).
We play Sundays, are still organizing for fall, and would welcome any new
participants.
 
PRACTICE TECHNIQUES """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
Can't round up 8+ skaters and 2 goalies for a game?  Here's a basic game
you can play with as few as 4 people that's fun and great practice for
basic hockey skills.
 
'  "Hockeyball"
'
'  Gear: Inline skates, sticks, pads, ball, chalk.
'
'  Play Surface:  Ideally, you'll want an area with clearly-defined edges.
'  A low-traffic street, school driveway, or the like is ideal, since
'  passes can be bounced off the curbs.  With chalk, mark off end lines
'  150-200' apart (depending on skaters' respiratory health and number
'  of players), as well as a faceoff mark at centre ice:
'
'  curb -> ========================================================
'              |                                               |
'  end line -> |                       x                       |
'              |                                               |
'          ========================================================
'
'  The rules are simple.  To score a goal, a skater must cross his
'  opponent's goal line WHILE IN CONTROL OF THE PUCK/BALL.  If the
'  ball goes over a team's end line with no one in control, that team
'  takes the ball back into play from behind the line (the puck must
'  then precede them over the line coming back into play).
'
'  If the ball goes out of play, a faceoff will take place at the point
'  of exit.
'
'  After every score, begin again with a centre-ice faceoff.
'
'  Play to a predetermined point (first to 7, for instance).  No time
'  limits.
 
Besides being a total blast (the Canadian equivalent of urban half-court
pickup basketball), this game is good practice for a variety of skills
including skating, passing, puck control, checking (the way we play it,
anyway -- this is optional) and basic strategy (crossing over and the
like).
 
If you want a different challenge, or to handicap a side, try playing
against a team with one or more players on sneakers instead of skates.
You'll be able to outrun them in long hauls, but they can kill you with
sudden stops/direction changes/accelleration/etc.
 
 
CREDITS """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
Thanks for the following for their field testing and other assistance in
the preparation of this file:
 
Anton "Slapshot" Shepps (LW), Dan Reed (LW), Chris "Nate" Collins (G),
Earl Scheib (D, no relation), Rachel MacGregor (D), Steve "Doc" Roth (D),
Rob "Franchise" Tedesco (RW), N.Y. State Assemblyman Allan K. Race (C,
Democrat), Heather "Hanover" Pfister (LW), Robert Jennings (G), and
"Pittsburgh" Bob Safier (C).
 
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 
 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Thomas A. Darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * record production * dance re-mixing
darling@cellar.org \\\ music for film * The Cellar BBS:215/654-9184 * FACT
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
 
===========================================================================
 
From: piltch@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Nancy Piltch)
Subject: Selection of hockey sticks
Message-ID: <3DEC199117465044@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: 3 Dec 91 21:46:00 GMT
 
Sometime in the past Phil asked if anyone could write a guide to 
selecting hockey sticks, which has apparently been met with 
resounding silence. I think I can help, at least for those just
entering the sport. Bear in mind, though, that while I've played a
good deal of intramural and pick-up hockey, I've never had any
formal coaching, so I'm sure there are others more knowledgeable.
This will be especially true of the subtle differences among sticks
that will matter to expert players.
 
Please feel free to correct my misstatements, clarify what is unclear,
and add what I've left out.
 
The main criteria in selection of hockey sticks are "handedness",
lie, length, and curvature.  All of these are largely a matter of
personal preference.
 
1. "Handedness": A hockey player will decide whether s/he prefers holding
the stick to the left side or the right. There appears to be no 
strong correlation to the person's handedness. A new player should try
it both ways, and find the one that feels most natural. Sticks are 
labeled either L or R, but since French-speaking Canada generates large
numbers of hockey players, the stick may be labeled G (gauche) or
D (droit). Some sticks carry both letters, i.e. L/G. A few sticks are
neutral and can be used either way.
 
2. Lie: This refers to the angle the stick makes with the blade. A higher
lie is closer to upright than a lower lie. While there are lots of
exceptions, a player who prefers to skate more upright will prefer a
higher lie, and a player who prefers to skate more bent over will take
a lower lie. Taller players also generally use higher lies. Again, a
new player should test several different lies to see what feels 
comfortable. The most common lies are 5, 6, and 7. This is the rest
of the labeling on a hockey stick: a 6R means a lie of 6 in a right
handed stick. Exaggerating the drawings:
 
         .                 .
       .                  .
     .                   .
____                ____
 
 5                    7
 
3. Length: I've been told that a stick should come up to about the
player's chin while wearing skates, but I find this uncomfortable.
I think it's more realistic to have it come to about the armpit or
a little below; again, this is preference.
 
4. Curvature: A more curved blade allows the puck to be flipped more
effectively for better shooting, but at the price of poorer passing
and receiving. A beginner should start with a gently curved
stick. A neutral stick, which I referred to above in the section on
handedness, has no curvature.
 
The blade of a stick should be taped. This helps prolong the life of
the blade and improves puck-handling capability. It's always black
tape, never white. The conventional wisdom is that a goalie can't 
see the puck as well against a black blade, but my feeling is that
a good goalie will see the puck. My personal opinion is that it is
black because of tradition.
 
The wear pattern on the tape can show whether a skater has selected
the proper lie. If the wear is toward the heel/toe of the blade the
skater should try a lower/higher lie.
 
A lot of players also tape the top of the blade for better grip.
 
Sticks also differ in weight; again this is personal preference.
 
 
Nancy Piltch            piltch@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov
NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland Ohio 44135
 
 
From: Thomas.Sullivan@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Sticks and Pucks (was Re: Selection of hockey sticks)
Message-ID: <MdDFjAO00aPCNOxV1e@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 4 Dec 91 18:17:48 GMT
 
Some other stuff to augment the stick info:
 
I often tape my sticks with white tape!  I think the tape matter is more
whether you use the friction tape (normally black) or the general
cloth tape used for taping around socks, skate tops, and equipment, which
is usually white, but comes in all colors.  I prefer the smoother white
tape
to the friction tape on my blade.  There are a fair amount of players on
our
team that like this too.  It is really a matter of preference.
 
I had never heard that the black tape makes it hard for the goalie to
see the
puck coming off of your stick, but this makes a lot of sense!  I should
start
buying the cloth tape in black just for my stick blades!
 
I use black friction tape to tape the top end of my stick, for a good
grip.  This deposits black gunk on your gloves, but the grip is good. 
Players will often wrap a ball of tape called a "butt-end" to the very
top of the stick to
stop it from slipping out of your hands.  Another trick is to roll up a
long 
piece of tape lengthwise into a long string, and wrap it around the top
handle of the stick (kind of like a barber shop pole) prior to taping up
the stick top.  This gives you a spiral stripe grip underneith the flat
tape, that also helps you hold onto your stick better.
 
For roller hockey, I use the plastic Mylec blades (cost about $2.50)
attached to shaft from an ice hockey stick that had a broken blade.  I
just saw off the broken wooden blade, and attach the plastic replacement.
Mylec (and others) sell plastic bladed sticks with wooden shafts.
 
The stick manufacturer "Montreal" makes a stick that is supposedly for
street and ice hockey.  It is basically has a hard graphite housing
around the whole blade and lower part of the shaft of the stick.   These
are expensive, and I've never seen anyone use one for ice hockey, but a
lot of
the street hockey players like them because they stay stiff like wooden
blades, not flex a lot like the plastic ones.
 
Some other sticks that are availble for ice and street hockey are
aluminum shafts.  I use an aluminum stick shaft for ice hockey now.  The
blades are wooden with a glue on the top end.  One heats the end of the
metal shaft and the glue end of the blade with a powerful hair dryer and
then you slide the glued end into the shaft.  When it cools, the metal
contracts and the combination of this with the glue holds the blade in
place.  When the blade breaks, you heat it up again to remove it, and
put on a new one.  The blades themselves cost a little less than a whole
new stick, and the shaft is a one time charge.  They have also come out
with these for street hockey, using blades similar to the Montreal
sticks described above.
 
Some players like the aluminum shafts because they are light, and can
come in more flexible or more stiff grades.  This allows a player to
have a stick with the feel s/he likes and also have at least the shaft
portion of the
stick be consistent, since only the blade is replaced.  Even two of the
same
brand and model stick can be different in weight and flex, since the
wood may be from 2 different trees, etc.
 
Whew, my original intention was not for this to be so long winded, Nancy
covered most of the stick stuff (very well too!) in her post, but since
I'm on a roll..........
 
Pucks and Balls:
 
 In ice hockey, one uses a hard black rubber puck, 3" in diameter, and
(I think) 3/4" in thickness.   The puck is usually frozen before a game
so it's temperature matches that of the ice, and it can slide better.
 
For street/roller/floor hockey, there are more options.  I've used 3
types of pucks:
 
1) very hard plastic pucks -- These can be use for street or floor
hockey, but usually aren't as they are really hard and hurt a lot if you
get hit with one and have little protection (usually the case with
street hockey).  This is
all we had when I was little, and looking back, I can't believe we used
to use these things all the time!  On hard surfaces, these skip up etc.
when new, but as soon as the edges get chewed up a bit and round out,
they slide
pretty well, even on asphalt.
 
2)  soft hollow plastic pucks -- These are only good for really smooth
surfaces..  We use these on gym floors.  They don't even work very well
on tennis courts, which is where we usually play roller hockey.  They are
great for floor hockey in a gym though.
 
3)  softer plastic pucks with rollers -- These were an attempt to make a
lighter puck that would slide better on rougher outdoor surfaces.  They
aren't great, but are better than (2) above outdoors.  They often end up 
rolling on their edges, or coming apart at the seams if someone takes a 
hard shot!  All in all, not great.
 
Hockey balls:
 
Hockey balls are usually used for street hockey and DEK hockey (a game
played in rinks built with a special plastic surface by Mylec).  The
balls are
hollow flexible plastic, and work well on all types of surfaces.   They
come in different hardnesses for different weather conditions, surfaces
etc. (softer for winter and less abrasive surfaces, harder for summer
and more abrasive surfaces).  They require slightly different skills
than using a puck 
though.
 
=END OF PART 3================================================================= 

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part4


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 4:  WHAT AND WHERE TO BUY
 
Table Contents
  - list of in-line mail-order places
  - After-market Add-ons
  - poles
  - ski buckle modification
 
================================================================================
 
                       LIST OF IN-LINE MAIL-ORDER PLACES
                       ---------------------------------
                           (plus some regular shops)
 
                           (last changed Apr 2, 1993)
 
General skating stuff:
 
Skates on Haight (800) 554-1235 / Skates Off Haight (415) 244-9800
P.O. Box 170010
San Francisco, CA 94117-0010
 
Inline USA (800) 685-6806
419 Monterey St.
Morro Bay, CA 93442
 
In-line Skate Accessories (ISA) (800) 766-5851
1800 Commerce St.
Boulder, CO 80301
 
Roll With It (310) 434-0063
920 Manhattan Ave
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266
 
South Windsor Arena (800) hockey1
585 John Fitch Blvd.
South Windsor, CT 06074

D-WING
1-800-44D-WING

Great Skate Hockey Supply     
1-800-828-7496                

Ocean Hockey Supply
1-800-631-2159

 
Boston area:

From: mldickens@bbn.com (Michael Dickens)

City Sports (many locations): Carries the whole line of RollerBlade,
nothing else.  You can buy a 10% discount for $10 (ask them), which can
save you $20 or $30 (depending on what you REALLY want to buy).

Zwicker's: Somewhere North of Boston, near route 3 and 128.  Best prices
but not easy to get to.  Carries RollerBlade and others; but is being
limited by RollerBlade's new policy (requiring dealers to limit
themselves to ONLY RollerBlade products or not sell the whole line).

Bob Smith's: Near Downtown Crossing, Boston.  Average prices, but
the staff Skates & is reasonably knowledgeable.

Lechmere:  CambridgeSide Galleria, Cambridge.  Carries the bottom line
models; average prices; staff is unhelpful and unknowledgeable.

NOTE:  For what you buy, you will get NO warranty (except the usual
Manufacturer's warranty).  Mail order is probably going to be as cheap
if not cheaper than the best price you can find around town, and with
the same warranty.  IMHO a good way to buy skates is to go to City
Sports and try on all the models you might want to try; possibly rent
(for $10 or $15) the skates to make sure the model and size are correct.

Then call around to the In-Line 800-number Mail Order places (see FAQ 4)
to get the best price (including shipping & time), and compare this with
the price and delay you'd pay in you local area.  Go with the one that
suits you better.


Murray Sandler's on Concord Ave in Belmont 484-5100 has inlines, quads, and ice
Ice House in Wellesley 237-6707 has quads and ice as fas as I know.
Beacon Hill skates, 482-7400 has inlines quads and ice. Ask for Chris.
 
 
Hudson Bay Inline (800) 447-0400
5405 College Avenue
Oakland, CA 94618
 
Courtesy Sports
4856 El Camino Real,
Los Altos, CA 94022
415-968-7970
Orders 1-800-729-1771
FAX 415-968-4609
 
Northland Ice Center in Cincinnati Ohio (513) 563 - 0008. 
 
More speed-skating oriented:
 
Skate Pro in S.F. (415) 752-8776
Built for Speed (315) 492-6620
SMR Sports (708) 387-0283
 
Competition Skates (205) 854-9617
c/o John Skelton
501 Springville Cr.
Birmingham AL 35215
 
Trailways Skate Rental (813) 461-9736
c/o Tom Sehlhorst
611 Palm Bluff
Clearwater FL 33515
 
Montrose Skate (713) 528-6102
c/o John McKay 
1406 Stanford
Houston TX 77019 
 
Shop Skate Escape (404) 892-1292
c/o Janice Phillips
1086 Piedmont Ave
Atlanta GA 30309
 
 
================================================================================
 
                       After-market Products for In-Line Skates
                       ----------------------------------------
                        Copyright (C) 1991 Philip A. Earnhardt
 
Permission is granted to copy and distribute verbatim copies this document,
provided that copies are distributed freely or with a nominal charge for the
copying medium. This copyright notice must remain attached to the document.
 
This document will be updated in the future; comments are welcome.  Please
send comments to: Phil Earnhardt, PO Box 7174, Boulder, CO 80306-7174.
Electronic mail can be sent to pae@netwise.com
 
OUTLINE
 
Introduction -- why to buy
   Safety
   Parts wear out
   Retrofit indoor compatibility
   Better performance -- NOT necessarily faster
 
Drive Train
   Bearings
   Wheels
   Spacers
   Brake Kits
   Brake Pads
 
Support
   Orthotics
   Removable/Permanent Ankle Support
   Laces and Boot Liners
 
Non-skate Products
   Protection
   Hockey Sticks
   Poles
   Packs and Water Bottle Carriers
   Night Lighting
   Tools for Maintenance
 
 
Introduction -- why to buy
   Safety
 
Many of the in-line After-market products will increase your safety.  There's
the traditional protection: helmets, knee pads, wrist guards, elbow pads.
Adding a second brake to your other skate may help improve your safety -- it
may be dangerous to wear out your only brake completely at certain points.
Getting reflectors and night lights can make dawn/dusk/night riding safer.
Carrying spare parts, tools, and other supplies with you in a pack adds a
safety margin to those long-distance trips.
 
   Parts wear out
 
If you keep using your in-lines, parts will start wearing out.  Depending on
use, brakes can wear out rapidly. Wheels and bearings will start showing signs
of wear and tear. Eventually, laces and boot liners may need replacing.
 
   Retrofit indoor compatibility
 
The newest in-line skates are "indoor compatible" -- they should cause no
damage to the floors of Skating Rinks. Kits are available to make some
existing skates rink-ready. Non-marking brakes are also becoming available.
 
   Better performance -- NOT necessarily faster
 
New wheels can give you better cornering, shock absorption, and more speed.
New bearings can make your skates faster, too. On the other hand, some new
bearings will be slower, but they will work maintenance-free for a long time.
Retrofitting old skates with ankle support may make them more comfortable for
long distances.
 
Drive Train
   Bearings
 
There is one size of bearing that's used in all in-lines: the 608 bearing.
This same bearing is used by skateboarders and in many industrial
applications; they should not be difficult to find. Traditional
in-line/skateboard bearings lines are GMN, NMB, Peer, Powell "Bones". These
are all shielded bearings -- they resist contamination, but are not sealed
against it. All of these bearings are around an "A" grade bearing -- good
speed. Of the bunch, the Powells are the most precise, they may deserve an
"AA" grade. The Powells are the easiest to maintain, since they are shielded
on only one side. They are also more expensive.
 
Powell manufacturers a bearing lubricant, Speed Cream. It's an emulsion with
an oil component and a grease-like component. Speed Cream gives good speed and
lasts for a long time; one small bottle will easily last for a season.
[Comments? Any oil-only recommendations? Any other grease recommendations?]
 
[Does someone have the information about the industrial bearing grades?]
 
Industrial bearings are generally more precise than the stuff used on skates.
They are also much more expensive and may not be suited for an outdoor
environment. Completely unshielded bearings are also available; they should
only be used in very clean environments.
 
There are also sealed bearings available: GMN, NMB and other bearings with
seals and a fairly heavy grease. These are slow bearings -- wheels will not
spin a complete revolution with sealed bearings in place. On the other hand,
they appear to be waterproof and dirt-proof. Rollerblade sells sealed bearings
under the Max Trainer name [who is Max?]. They are more expensive in the
Powell bearings, but should enjoy a long, maintenance-free life.
 
   Wheels
 
As near as I can determine, there are 2 mainline manufacturers of wheels:
Hyper and Kryptonics. These manufacturers will create custom runs of wheels
for in-line manufacturers, but they're still made by one of these guys. Jenex,
a company making roller ski products, makes a specialty wheel; see the bottom
of this section for details.
 
Many of the original equipment in-line wheels are inferior: they use
lower-grade wheel material and/or inferior hub design. Specifically, I don't
like the Rollerblade 608 wheels, which are also distributed as an after-market
wheel. Since these wheels are often more expensive than other recreational
replacement wheels, they should be easy to avoid.
 
Generally, skate runners have enough clearance for a certain maximum diameter
of wheel. Some racing skates (e.g., Zandstra Skeelers) will take wheels up to
80mm. Rollerblade's Racerblade and Aeroblade will take wheels up to 77mm --
it's expected that non-Rollerblade models will soon appear in this size. Most
everything else will take wheels up to a 72.5mm diameter.
 
Wheels are available in a variety of hardnesses; these are described by a
100-point "A" scale where 100 is the hardest wheel. In general, the fastest
speeds will be attained on a smooth track with the hardest wheels.
Unfortunately, most surfaces are not smooth enough for hard wheels; the softer
wheels will give a much smoother ride on rougher surfaces. A reasonable
hardness tradeoff is around a 78A wheel; some may prefer an 82A wheel. Some
skaters will use slightly harder wheels on the front and back of the skate
with softer wheels in the middle.
 
Currently, Kryptonics markets 3 lines of wheels: recreational, hockey, and
racing. The recreational wheels are 70mm in diameter; 78A, 82A, and 85A
hardness are available. These are good all-around recreational wheels; they
are also the cheapest in the Kryptonics line.
 
The hockey wheels are available only in 70mm 82A. Besides being good hockey
wheels, they have good cornering because there's a large surface in contact
with the surface. These are the widest wheels that are available for in-lines.
 
The racing, or Turbo Core, wheels are available in 3 sizes: 72.5mm, 77mm, and
80mm. They're available in 3 hardnesses 74A, 78A, and 82A. (Note: availability
of the 72.5mm wheels is currently very limited; the first runs were only
distributed in an 78A hardness). These are great wheels for most anything --
the hub design minimizes mass, but gives a good connection between the outer
wheel and the bearing. These are the wheels that most racers used in 1991.
They are a bit more expensive.
 
Hyper makes "normal" and "ultralight" wheels. As near as I can tell, there's
never a reason to go with the "normal" wheels; the "ultralight" guys are
plenty strong. Hyper wheels are available in 72mm, 76mm, and 80mm. The 80mm
wheels are available in 75A, 78A, and 82A. The 72mm and 76mm wheels are
available in 78A, 82A, 85A, and 93A. Unless under another label (e.g., Bauer
wheels are made by Hyper), these wheels are fairly difficult to find; some
mail-order shops carry them. The one obvious advantage over the Krypto skates
would be to use the hard 93A wheels on banked speed-skating tracks (of which
there are 2 in the whole USA! Sigh.).
 
Jenex, Inc., a company that makes roller ski products, is selling in-line
wheels intended for cross-country ski training. The wheels are 70mm 82A nylon
reinforced with glass fibers. The company has been successful with this wheel
chemistry on roller skis; it should work well for in-lines.
 
Included with each wheel is a pair of "dual contact type" seals "the most
effective seals available" (from their glossy). These sound like the Max
Trainer bearings available from Rollerblade. A pair of 2 wheels with bearings
has a MSRP of $28.95. This is a bit steep, but not completely outrageous if
they significantly outlast normal wheels and bearings.
 
Jenex recommends using only 2 of these wheels on each skate, leaving normal
wheels in the inner positions. For folks who like to maximize their workout
(i.e. outrageously slow skates), put a set of 4 on each skate.
 
The number for Jenex is (603) 672-2600. (Amherst, NH, USA).
 
   Spacers
 
Most skates have a solid axle -- typically, a bolt -- running through the
center of the wheel. The axle should have a tight fit with the wheel's spacer
-- the small plastic tube that's sandwiched between the two bearings.
 
Several companies are manufacturing integrated axle/spacer systems.  The
spacers are machined aluminum shaped like a plastic spacer on the outside.
Inside, they are threaded; the kits include pairs of bolts that screw into
each side of the kits. Some of the kits include replacement parts to the
Rollerblade oval spacers.
 
The spacer kits appear to make wheels spin a bit better; this may be because
the metal spacer cannot be compressed, eliminating a pre-load on the bearings.
[Alternate theories are welcomed.]  The kits generally have much smaller bolt
heads; such heads should make the skates much more acceptable to indoor rink
operators. [Question: are bolts on the Blading Edge kit somehow mounted flush
to the runners?  (i.e. no possibility of the bolt heads damaging rink
surfaces).]
 
Spacer kits are available from some mail-order shops and some skating
retailers. These kits cost anywhere from $20 to $40.
 
   Brake Kits
 
Virtually all in-line skates come with at least one brake. Some come with two.
All Rollerblade skates and some other brands sell a brake kit. These allow you
to mount a brake on the other skate.
 
A second brake gives an added margin of safety -- if the first brake fails
(e.g., wears out, etc.), the second is available. Aesthetically, a second
brake makes braking a symmetrical activity. If you're adept at using a single
brake, you will have an interesting experience teaching yourself how to
effectively use the "other" brake.
 
   Brake Pads
 
For Rollerblade skates, there are 3 types of brake pads available: standard,
TRS, and polyurethane. Standard brakes tend to be fairly screechy and wear out
the fastest. TRS brakes, which come in gray, last much longer and don't
screech as much. They're more expensive than standard brakes. Polyurethane
brakes, which come in bright blue and pink, last about as long as TRS brakes.
They don't screech at all.  They're also non-marking. This may be a feature if
you use your skates at rinks; it may be a non-feature if you're into macho
brake marks.  Poly brakes are about the same price as TRS brakes.
 
Rollerblade brakes sell anywhere from $3-$5 each.
 
[I don't know anything about non-rollerblade brake pads.]
 
 
Support
   Orthotics
 
Generally, orthotics are used to neutralize any sideways lean in your feet.
When in a neutral stance, boots should be nvertical. For most people their
feet are slightly angled inwards or outwards.
 
For edging sports like skiing, it's vital that a neutral position yields a
flat ski; a proper orthotic can make a huge difference. Since in-lines lack
distinct edges, their value is a bit less on skates. On the other hand, a
ski-boot orthotic may well serve double-duty in your in-line skates.
 
Ski shops and some footwear shops sell orthotics; good ones will cost anywhere
from $50 - $150. These are a serious investment, but the payback for better
improvement may be large.
 
   Removable/Permanent Ankle Support
 
Newer in-line skates (e.g. Rollerblade TRS Lightning, Bauer XT-7, etc.) have a
ski-like buckle at the ankle. Such support usually gives recreational skaters
added support and control.
 
Rollerblade markets a pair of nylon straps with velcro connectors; give good
support, but they are a bit expensive. Equally effective are nylon straps with
holes and a simple buckle design. If you really want buckles, there's a brand
of ratcheting toe straps available from Performance bike. Other types of
bicycle toe straps may work too, provided they're long enough.
 
Many of these straps will fit in-between the two lace guides on the top of the
boot. Remember to put the fastening device for the strap on the outside of the
boot. This will minimize the possibility of hitting the other boot.
 
Some companies are selling After-market ratchet kits for lace-only skates. The
advantage over the removable straps is that they won't be lost. Unfortunately,
these work poorly. First, the pawl must be put on the inside of the boot --
there's no boot shell in front. This increases the chance of hitting the other
boot while skating. The ratchet lever must also be farther forward, increasing
the chance that it will spontaneously open while skating. Without radical boot
surgery, an add-on ratchet kit will perform poorly.
 
   Laces and Boot Liners
 
I've had good experience with thicker laces -- they allow you to crank tighter
and seem to more resistant to failure. The Crazy Legs brand works very well
and is available in a variety of bright colors.
 
Eventually, the springy material in boot liners will become permanently
compressed. Rollerblade sells boot liners for their skates; other
manufacturers probably do, too. [Any info??]
 
Non-skate Products
   Protection
 
There are three pieces of "primary" protection: helmets, wrist guards, and
knee pads. Head injuries are relatively rare, but their consequences are often
extreme. An ANSI- or snell-approved bike helmet will give proper projection.
Make sure to have the straps properly adjusted and have the helmet "flat" on
the head -- most of your forehead should be covered by the helmet.
 
Wrist guards will keep the wrist from bending too far backwards during a fall.
The Rollerblade TRS guards are excellent wrist guards. There are many other
brands of wrist guards available from the Skateboard manufacturers -- Dr. Bone
Savers (or DBS), Rector, etc.
 
Knee pads will allow your knee to slide if it hits the ground during a fall;
they can also distribute the force of impact somewhat. Again, the Rollerblade
TRS and DBS knee pads are very good -- they have a large, smooth, riveted
surface. Avoid the waffle-shaped Rollerblade Bladerunner knee pads -- they
will fail after a few dozen falls.
 
There are several types of "secondary" protection: elbow pads, gloves, a thick
pair of pants, a rear-view mirror.
 
   Hockey Sticks
 
[I haven't got a clue. Help!]
 
   Poles
 
Using skating skiing poles can add an upper-body workout to your skate
sessions. Double-poling without skating can make your profile quite narrow, a
possible safety enhancement on narrow sections of road. On the other hand,
poles only work well on asphalt surfaces -- the tips will skid on concrete
trails. Also, poles greatly increase your length and are poorly-understood by
other path users. I recommend their usage only on low-volume paved
trails/roads.
 
Since in-line skates increase your height more than x-c skis, a slightly
longer pole may be needed. Also, remove the pole's basket and replace it with
a ferrule specially made for road use -- both Swix and Excel make these for
their poles.
 
Sharp tips and good form are crucial. If the wrist is bent backwards on each
stroke, it's possible to aggravate the hand ligaments running through the
Carpal Tunnel. Some of the new ski pole handles -- particularly the Swix "T"
handle -- can help minimize this danger.
 
   Packs and Water Bottle Carriers
 
Around 1985, Ultimate Direction began marketing the first waist belt water
bottle carriers. These are available in a variety of sizes -- from a tiny
8-ounce bottle carrier to a 2500 cubic inch backpack.  Several of the packs'
bottle carriers can be zipped completely shut, which helps to keep fluids hot
or cold longer. UD's water bottles are waterproof when closed.
 
At 1500 cubic inches, UD's Voyager pack is an excellent pack for the
commuting/long-distance skater. The suspension of the pack keeps the load low
and minimizes interferance with the skating stroke. A clever layout of the
shoulder straps prevents chafing under the arms when using poles. Skates can
be lashed to the bottom of the pack when you get where you're going.  Finally,
this pack is useful for all types of other activities -- day hikes, downhill
skiing, x-c skiing, biking, etc.
 
There are many other brands of fanny packs with water bottle carriers.  Many
of these brands have reasonable quality; almost all cost less than the UD
fanny packs. For a fanny pack, the Mountainsmith day packs have a large
capacity, but they lack a water bottle holster.
 
   Night Lighting
 
Two companies make first-class helmet headlights for night skating: Night Sun
and Night Rider. These two-bulb systems both have halogen lights with a
variety of wattages (5-30) available. They qualify as "see lights" -- they
output enough light to allow you to see with no other lighting source.
Typical bulb selection is for a high and low beam.
 
The Night Sun system uses a custom battery that's manufactured in a standard
bicycle watter bottle case; this works well with the water bottle carriers
described above. The Night Rider system's battery has a molded shell that fits
against the back. It comes with a custom fanny pack that holds the battery.
Both systems are around $200.
 
A much lower-cost option is the Underwater Kinetics mini-Q40 flashlight.  This
light uses 4 AA batteries in a 2x2 configuration and a very efficient xenon
bulb; it almost qualifies as a "see" light. It fits comfortably in the hand or
can be mounted on a wrist with a nylon strap. This light sells for about $20
at SCUBA shops. Consider carrying a backup set of batteries with you.
 
For tail lights, the clip-on version of the Vistalight works fairly well. It
has 4 LEDs that flash several times a second; the light will work for several
hundred hours (!) on a pair of AA batteries. There's also a Sanyo leg-strap
light with a low-efficiency incandescent bulb and a single non-flashing LED to
the rear. This light can be turned into a high-efficiency tail light by
removing (or just unscrewing) the bulb.  A solid LED strapped to a leg
probably gives a better sense of distance than flashing LEDs clipped to the
waist.  Both the Vistalight and the Sanyo light are available from Performance
Bike Shops.
 
Bike stores sell a variety of reflective vests, triangles, and self-adhesive
reflector kits. Reflective patches can be added to helmets, and skates, and
poles.
 
   Tools for Maintenance
 
For skates with one or two hex bolts per axle, a socket wrench can make wheel
maintenance easier; shops generally use battery-powered tools for speed.
 
Running a vacuum cleaner around the wheels after each use can remove dirt
before it gets into the bearings.
 
For skating poles, a DMT diamond whetstone will keep the ferrules nice and
sharp.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
Phil Earnhardt		pae@netwise.com
Netwise, Inc. 		Boulder, CO  (303) 442-8280
 
================================================================================
 
 
POLES
-----
 
From: pae@netwise.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Message-ID: <1992Feb6.211402.583@netwise.com>
Date: 6 Feb 92 21:14:02 GMT
 
There are two main issues with using poles. First, if you're using poles on
"bike trails," I recommend against their use if there is any appreciable
amount of other traffic. Pedestrians, cyclists, and other skaters don't
understand the motion of poles and won't know how to safely interact with you.
High traffic also limits a full-commit-asymmetrical-pole-plant style -- the
*real* fun stuff to be doing with poles.
 
If you're on a "bike lane" or are mixing it up with regular automobile
traffic, I had no problem with the use of poles.
 
The second issue is a technical one -- you can't effectively use ski pole tips
on concrete surfaces. They work great on asphalt, but poorly on harder stuff.
They skid off the surface unless you're using an unnatural amount of force on
the tips. This excessive force is poor technique and can lead to injury. From
someone who skated real close to having CTS, I recommend avoiding hard
surfaces.
 
I used poles for years in Boston. After I moved to Boulder, I use them rarely.
In Boulder, the major trails are all concrete. Also, the human density on
those trails is prohibitively high. I use my poles when I'm not skating
locally.
 
 
Poles are fairly durable. The only time I lost one was when I did a pole plant
into a storm drain. Aluminum ones are OK; composite poles will transmit a bit
less of the road vibration back to you. I really like the Swix "T" handles --
I have a pair of the Swix Skatelite Aluminum poles for on-snow (and occasional
in-line) skating.
 
Never ever attempt to use the poles for slowing down -- either you will fail,
or bad things will happen when you succeed.
 
If you need some instruction on pole technique, pick up Lee Borowsky's booklet
_The Simple Secrets of Skating_. 'Tis an excellent book on x-c skate skiing.
 
Benefits? Besides the obvious upper-body conditioning stuff, you also get much
more variety in your skating. You can mix up all sorts of poling patterns with
your normal skate strokes. If you want to go into gorilla mode, you can glide
with your skates, pushing yourself solely with your poles. This is a good
technique if you encounter some terrain that requires you to have a narrow
profile. As noted earlier, going full-out with asymmetrical pole plants is a
sport unto itself.
 
 
From: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Subject: Re: Rollerblade Ski Poles?
Message-ID: <1992Apr25.024811.19454@bnr.ca>
Date: 25 Apr 92 02:48:11 GMT
 
In article <1992Apr22.114806.4774@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, 
cowl@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DAve.) writes:
|> Does anyone who uses the Rollerblade Ski Pole like things have any comments
|> to make regarding:
 
1) I assume that you are referring to XC Ski Skating practice. 
   Rollerblades provide a good simulation of XC Ski Skating however
   you'll find that you go somewhat faster with less effort than you
   will on snow. To ensure you get a good workout, find someplace
   with lots of nice paved hills.
 
2) When skating with poles on the local recreation paths I normally 
   don't pole when overtaking or meeting pedestrians or cyclists,
   the sight of poles going up and down seems to strike fear in 
   the hearts of many.
 
3) Like XC-ski skating you shouldn't find that your arms are sore
   at the end of the day. If they are you are relying on your poles too
   much ... remember that all the power is in your legs.
   Also be carefull of how hard you pole, otherwise you'll find that
   your elbows get sore, you don't get the same sort of cushoning      
   effect that you do on snow.
 
   You will find that you do get a better workout with poles because 
   of the arm action.
 
4) Personally, I don't use the Rollerblade poles. I just take the tips
   off of my regular Skating poles by softening up the glue under hot
   running water, then I glue on carbide tips (should be available
   in your local XC-Ski shop) using a glue gun. The carbide tips give a 
   good grip on pavement and won't get dull like normal steel tips.
   Polling can be tricky on concrete.  
 
 
BUCKLES
-------
 
From: fay@fusbal.zk3.dec.com (Daniel Fay)
Subject: Buckles for MacroBlades...finally
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.141127.18168@decvax.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:11:27 GMT
 
I have been finally able to find buckles to replace my velcro straps....
they are the same as the ones on the TRS.  They are available from
Skate City Supply Inc., PO Box 379, Ceder Crest NM 87008...505-294-6699
No catalog...but they seem to carry everything and anything.
 
It is about $19 for a pair...and they even send all the rivets and washers.
The guy on the phone said they import the buckles into the country, and most
everone else gets the buckles from them.  For the MacroBlades all you have
to do is pop the rivets out on the current buckles and use the same holes
for the new buckles and rivets.  On the other side you have to drill a hole
in the plastic for the other rivet.  Pretty simple...as long as you have a 
rivet gun.
 
Also, Skate City said they were going to be moving away from carrying
Rollerblades and move to Roces (the company that manufactures RB's stuff). 
One of the main reasons was that they are cheaper and come with Hyper wheels
instead of the 608's.  
 
Finally I can break free from those Velcro straps....
 
dan
 
 
=END OF PART 4==================================================================

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part5


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 5:  SKATE REVIEWS

(last changed May 14, 1993)
 
================================================================================
 
                              IN-LINE SKATE REVIEWS
                              ---------------------
                         (as compiled from alt/rec.skate)
 
NOTE: This collection of "reviews" was culled from articles posted in 
alt.skate (now defunct) and rec.skate, dating from May 1991.  While these 
articles include many facts and first-hand experience, much of the text here 
is necessarily opinion. Also realize that the in-line market is changing 
rapidly, so prices and specifications are likely to be out of date.    
 
 
Table of contents
-----------------
 Zetras, Riedell, other low-end skates
 Roller Derbys
 Bauers
 California Pro
 Ultra Wheels Gretzky Wings
 Switch-It
 Metroblades
 Macroblades EQ/ES
 Aeroblade (Rollerblade)
 Racing skates
 
 
Zetras, Riedell, low-end skates
-------------------------------
I'd at least consider getting the "Reidell 601 Extreme!" skates (or possibly 
other Reidell models) over the R-blade Lightnings.  Although I haven't tried 
on a pair, their wheels (Hypers) appear to be far superior to the slow, 
spongy, Rollerblade Kryptonics 608s that come on the lightnings (though I've 
heard the version on the TRS are a bit better than those on the regular 
lightning due to a bigger hub).  The one local store I know of here that 
carries the Reidells (Beacon Hill Skate) sells them for about $175.  They 
look like pretty decent skates.
 
David B Rosen, Cognitive & Neural Systems         Internet: rosen@cns.bu.edu
 
-----
 
Riedell 601 Extremes from Skates On Haight, San Francisco. $175.
 
These have the top clasp/buckle like the Lightning TSR's.
The design of the boot was aided by Olson (the founder of Rollerblades).
You cannot adjust the height of the wheels like you can on the Lightnings.
The wheels are supposedly fast (I say supposedly because I as a beginner
can't really say that fer-sure, I can say I did move fair distances without a 
lot of effort).
 
The boot is supposed to breath better and be better designed than the 608's.
I found both the Reidell boot and the 608 to feel the same (in terms of 
comfort)(standing in the store)
 
I also brought wrist/hand guards (slammers(?)) and knees pads (~$17 ea) and 
they have already paid for themselves (I've only fallen once so far but 
when I did it was hard).
 
The help I got in making the decision from SOH was very good. Another place 
was nice to me was Courtesy Sports in Los Altos ( $179.99 with a 10% back if 
you find them advertised cheaper). The worst place was Big-5, Stevens Creek, 
San Jose ("They're more expensive so they have to be better.") Everybodyelse 
(where I went in person) was imbetween.  
Nuevo Color (San Mateo) were very nice on the phone (608's $179)
 
Any Mountain and Tri City are not cheap (608's: $185-$199) (even with their 
sale price) 
 
Nobody in this area tended to stock the Baur(?) or the Ultra Wheels Classics 
mentioned in August Consumer Reports (A lot of people have the Ultra Wheels 
Skate Attrck 2000's which compared to the Lightnings and the Reidell is *very* 
uncomfortable), and nobody had their price for the RollerBlade Lightnings.
 
On the personal side, I found the orthopedic pads for my flat feet do help, and
that because of my 'knocked-knees' my stance is slightly wider than that of 
most people I've seen skating, but it really has affected my balance like I 
thought it would (sometimes I do find myself pushing the outside edges of my 
feet against the boot).
 
Anyway, all I have to do now is learn how to turn quickly enough to avoid the 
oncoming brick wall (that probably won't make the Skate boarders happy :))
(SOH also has skate boards).
 
If I didn't get back to you personally, sorry, thanks for all you help and 
answers,
 
Winston.
 
-----
 
SonH is still alive and well. SoffH is just their mail-order branch.
 
The only warning about SoH is that there appears to be some bad blood between
them and Rollerblade. They will steer you away from Rollerblade products (and,
mostly, toward SwitcHit products). They bash Rollerblade's Aeroblade, calling
it technically inferior, which is wrong.
 
>I've only ice skated a little, but I've been thinking about buying ice
>skates, then I saw SwitcHits.  Anybody know if they're OK as ice skates?
>I guess they're hockey blades, which I'm not sure I'd want if I'm into
>figure skating.
 
The SwitcHit blades indeed have a hockey blade rock. I don't know why they
couldn't do figure skate blades, though. You might want to call SwitcHit
and ask. They have an 800 number.
 
SwitcHit says that several NHL players have gone with SwitcHit. What these
players have done is put SwitcHit blade mounts on their boots. These players
don't use SwitcHit's boots.
 
The Consumer Reports one-page article is very good. I think virtually all of
their comments are right on target. The main problems were in coverage -- they
didn't include Riedell or SwitcHit skates or Rollerblade's Aeroblade in the
evaluation.  Also, they just mentioned replacement wheels in passing, but
didn't mention any particular brands.
 
I believe this thread started with a query about inexpensive Rollerblade
mail-order sources. First off, it appears as if most mail-order operations
cannot sell the upper part of the Rollerblade line. The dividing line appears
to be at the Lightning TRS. If you want the Aero, Racer, or TRS, you may not
be able to find it via mail-order. There are limitations on what shops can
discount these upper skates, too.
 
I like to support local shops that give good service. You may be able to do
some bargaining with a local shop on accessories that you buy along with your
skates, etc. Just remember that it costs money to provide good service!  If a
local shop charges high prices but doesn't give good service, don't support
them. It may be useful to tell them why you're going elsewhere. The best ways
to get support for local skating is to vote with your $$$ at shops that are
doing good things.
 
Phil Earnhardt          pae@netwise.com
 
-----
 
Roller Derby
------------
Just for the sake of expanding our inline horizons 8-) a friend and I
headed out to a Pelican sports/pool store out on Rt.22 (in NJ) to scout
the non-Rollerblade inline skates. Two main non-RB lines they had
available were RollerDerby and Bauer.  
 
First the RollerDerbys
 
Sonic2000's ($150 list):
   Boots cut low in front, but high in back, with laces and a buckle (ala the 
Lightning TRS) and small wheels (didn't say anywhere, but looked like 70mm,80A)
My friend and I didn't even bother trying on these skates after we noticed 
that the plastic runners with their plastic connecting pins going from the 
left runner to the right weren't holding the runners very well.  We could 
press each runner inward and the pins would snap in where they should've.
 
South Coast ($250 list):
   A three-buckle skate, looks lots like the Macroblade, but in a hideous 
hot-pink (liner)/black (boot)/yellow-n-orange (trim/accents) color combo.  
Wheels weren't marked again, but looked like 70mm 80A.  Spinning the wheels 
with the skates upside-down gave about 3 or 4 turns, which was pretty 
surprising.  Anyway, the liner was okay, but for some reason in the bottom 
they were packed with a rubbery insole.  After taking them out, we felt much 
more comfortable in the skates.  I'd rate the liners comparable to the TRS's.
Although this was an all-buckle skate the buckles looked like they were cast 
from a cheap mold.  A far cry from the buckles on the Aeroblade.  But all in 
all, the buckles held pretty snug.
 
TK4000's ($300 list): 
   Also a three-buckle skate, all black.  I assumed the wheels were like those 
of the other Rollerderbys.  Bearings much better than the Sonic2000's.  The 
liners were again packed with the rubber insole, but after removing those, we 
found that the liners were pretty good, much like the Macros.  The buckles 
still looked cheaply made though.  Good snug fit, but still short of the Macros.
A moderate skate, but definitely not worth $300.
 
All the Rollerderby skates have a really small brake pad on the right
skate.  It's only about 3/4 inches thick!  The material was really, really
hard plastic though, not the rubber kind.  As a whole, I'd recommend against 
buying this brand, if only for the reason that your money would be much better 
spent on other brands (isn't that the only reason? 8-)  The store did have the 
RD skates marked down pretty low though.  The sonics were going for $99,
the SCoast for $170ish, and the TK4000s for like $240.  
 
 
The next brand was Bauer
 
The Bauer naming is kinda confusing with all those X's 8-) but anyway...
 
X/3 ($120 list):  
   All laces, shiny grey boot with black in places.  70mm wheels.  Probably 
78A.  We didn't try these on, but hey, they're the low end skates, go figure.
 
XF/3,Freestyle ($180 list):
   All laces, shiny grey boot with black, 72mm 78A wheels.  Again we didn't
try these out, but looks like it was comparable to the Lightning 608s or
Zetra303s (I know, there's a difference, but just as a guess.)
 
XS/5,Street ($200 list):
  All laces again, with a shiny black boot.  Came with neon yellow 72mm 78A
wheels too.  My friend tried them out.  Good liner, but laces are laces
and they take time so my friend kinda said "nah..." 8-)  Anyway, a good
skate,  good bearings, good fit.
 
XT/7,Trainer ($300 list):
  This skate was amazing. (Well, after trying the Rollerderby skates,
these were relatively amazing 8-).  The boot is shiny black, cut low with
laces and a great buckle on the cuff.  Wheels were 72mm 78A, the
bearings were Germans I believe.  The liner was like sinking your feet 
into a pillow.  Very cushy, very snug.  As much as I hate to admit
it 8-), the liners were probably better than my Aeroblade liners.  Even
rolling around on the carpeted floor, the skates felt *very* fast.  If
they weren't so durn expensive, I'd grab a pair.  One important thing to
notice is that the front wheel is set a good deal forward, even farther
than the Aeroblade front wheel is.  The front wheel's bolt is practically 
under the front end of the boot.  Good for speed I suppose, but definitely 
a different feel from all the other skates.  It was really too bad this
Pelican store didn't have Racers (like the another one did) so I could
compare. 
 
The Bauer skates all had rubbery brakes, slanted at an angle so that you
could effectively lift your brake foot to lift.  Rollerblade brakes,
when new are parallel to the ground, which makes it a tad bit harder to
brake easily.  The Bauer brakes were a little thin though.  About half
as thick as Rollerblade brakes, so they might wear faster.  
 
Anyway, hope this little review is useful to people looking to buy skates.  
 
Note: the prices above are probably on the high side.  Pelican is
notorious for outrageous prices, so you'd probably be able to get a
pretty good deal at other stores.
 
(When we have time, we'll head out to the other and better Pelican store. 
They not only have the entire Rollerblade line-up, in every color, but they
also have Ultra Wheels and SwitcHits skates.)
 
-Tony Chen
 adchen@lee.cs.uiowa.edu
 
-----
 
Y'all ready for some Bauer hype and jargon? 8-)  I got the Bauer brochure a 
couple of weeks ago.  Why didn't I think of copying every word down for you 
folks to read? (NO comments 8-) 8-)
 
I'll provide a quick chart on the XF/3, XS/5, XT/7 and XR/10s.
 
SKATE : WHEEL/BRNGS : CHASSIS      : LINER          : SHELL MATERIAL
      :             :              :                :
XF/3  : 70mm82A/NMB : superlight   : high density   : molded polyurethane
      : Bauer       : glass-filled :   foam         :
      :             :              :                :
XS/5  : 72mm78A/NMB : superlight   : Evazote/Volara : molded polyurethane
      : Hypers      : glassfilled  : Foam (don't    :
      :             :              : ask me)        :
      :             :              :                :
XT/7  : 72mm78A/GMN : superlight   : Evazote/Volara : molded polyurethane
      : Hypers      : glassfilled  : Foam           :
      :             :              :                :
XR/10 : 76mm78A/GMN : Zandstra     : Memory foam    : molded polyurethane
      : Hypers      :  6000        :                :
 
So the verdict is...if you're comparing the XF/3 and the XS/5, the only
real difference are the wheels and bearings!  I don't know about Bauer's
penchant for over-hyped-marketing names for their liners.  Is there a major
difference in liner qualities between the XF/3 and XS/5?  Probably only
a minimal amount.  If you find XF/3s for a good deal less than XS/5s
you're probably getting a good bargain.
 
-Tony Chen, adchen@lee.cs.uiowa.edu
 
-----
 
California Pros
---------------
From: markb@plasma.kinetics.com (Mark Burnham)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1991 23:25:00 GMT
 
 
I recently purchased a pair of  CaliforniaPro Inline skates.  I have the
"top" model called the "Nitroline".  I only paid $150 for them
at Nordstrum's (NOT the cheapest place around) in San Francisco.  They are 
basically a RollerBlade Lightning TRS clone.  They have laces and a single
buckle at the top of the boot.  The wheels are 70mm/78A very similar to the
TRS wheels.  I've skated in them now for probably about 16 hours (not all at
once!) and I'm really happy with them.  A friend of mine has the TRS's and I
seem to be able to roll just as quickly as him. I think they are the best value
on the market (that I've seen). The only difference I can see between the 
Nitroline and the TRS is that the TRS boot may be slightly stiffer, and a 
bit more plush.
 
 
I called CaliforniaPro about using 72mm wheels and they said it was no problem
(that's the largest you can go however).   The phone rang about 3 times and
someone answered and gave me the information I was looking for.  I was really
impressed. That sort of response is pretty rare.  I don't know about other 
places in the country, but 72mm wheels are much more common than 70mm around 
here. Also, according to a friend who knows, the bearings in the wheels (NMB
608's) are "pretty good".  I don't know nothing 'bout bearings, so I'll take 
his word for it.      
 
That said, I've seen 1 small problem:
 
It's a pain to find someplace to get brakes.  The store I bought them from
doesn't carry the damn things.  I've made an interesting discovery however. 
The TRS brake assembly bolts right on! There is a slight difference between the
2 systems, but it seemed quite secure when I bolted on the TRS assembly.  I
haven't skated on this yet, so I can't guarantee that it works, but it seems
like it'll be fine.  The RollerBlade brake systems use much more material in
the brakes, so I'm sure they'll last longer then the stock CaliforniaPro ones
(the CaliforniaPro brakes are cylindrical, kinda like those funky skates with
2 wheels on each side of the boot. ;)  ).
I'm planning to get a TRS assembly soon and really skate on it.  I'll let you
know what happens.
 
Anyway, if anyone is looking for good reasonably priced skates, I would strongly
recommend the CaliforniaPro Nitroline skate.  BTW, they do have a cheaper model
(like ~$90) but it lacks the buckle, and unfortunately I don't remember what 
sort of wheels it had.
 
CaliforniaPro can be reached at:
10637 Roselle St., Suite G
San Diego, CA 92121
(619) 597-0690
(619) 597-0776 - FAX
 
Have fun. BTW, I have no affiliation with CaliforniaPro.
 
-Mark (markb@wc.novell.com)
 
-----
 
From: Thomas.Sullivan@cs.cmu.edu
Message-ID: <4dADMGC00aPCQbjlhl@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 25 Nov 91 13:09:38 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
 
I test drove my new Gretzky Wings this past Saturday in a hockey game.
They roll very smoothly and the boot is quite comfortable.  The lower part
of the skate laces and the upper part has the ski boot style buckle. This
makes for a very snug ankle fit.   I would recommend these buckle styles
for any skaters that really like a snug fit.  One of the things I didn't
like about my last pair of skates was that it was hard to pull the laces 
very tight with the plastic boots.  I like my hockey (ice) skates very 
tight and snug (like they're a part of my feet), and the buckle really 
allows for that feel on the inline.
 
Since I'm still pretty much a greenhorn at inline skating, I've got a few
things to learn about stopping in a hockey game!  Especially now with 
skates with very fast bearings.  I love the fact that I can corner much 
better with the Wings than my older skates, and the speed and
smoothness is much closer to ice now too, but ya just can't hockey stop
in an inline like you do on ice (and I keep forgetting that!).  Any other 
inline hockey players have comments on stopping style?  
 
I also removed the brake from my skate about midway through the game,
and it made turning around to skate backwards much easier.  I kept 
catching the brake sometimes when I'd turn around.  I don't recommend
skating without a brake around town (hills and such) but on a flat surface 
during a hockey game, not a bad idea.  I also found that I could turn more
easily by pivoting on the front wheels instead of the whole skate.  Might
be able to retain the brake if I perfect this technique more.  
 
The liner in the Wings is also very comfortable.  Pretty thick foam so
even when the skate is tight, you don't feel like it is digging into your
foot.  I'm pretty happy with the skate so far.
 
Oh yeah, we were playing hockey on a tennis court.  Great surface, pretty
smooth (although ours here at Carnegie Mellon have some major cracks
in them) so you roll nicely, and don't shred yourself when you fall, but 
rough enough that you can really hug the surface on turns.  
 
--Tom
 
P.S.  The Wings are also on sale now at the Great Skate for $170.  This
       is a *GREAT* price.  I paid $183 at Sabreland for mine, which is 
        the best "regular" price I found.  I didn't get my Great Skate
        sale catalog until a few days after I had already ordered them 
        from Sabreland.  If anyone is interested in a fast, comfortable
        skate, I'd recommend looking into these.  Enjoy!
 
P.P.S.  They also give you this really cheezy video of them making an
        UltraWheels video with Gretzky.  A real selling point!  (HA)
 
-----
 
The Reviews section of the October issue of Outside has an excellent article
about in-lines. The writer reviews skates he likes from Ultra Wheels,
SwitcHit, Bauer, Riedell, and Rollerblade. 
 
He also describes the nature of learning new things on skates: you often will
find that you learn new skills instantly -- or will find that you already know
how to do something, but won't discover it until The Moment of Trial. I won't
spoil the stories he tells, but I do think he embellished his Boulder Creek
Trail story a bit--I don't think I've ever hit 40MPH on the section of trail
mentioned on my Racers. Perhaps 30. That's fast enough. It is a fun little
section of trail, provided that few other users are around.
 
The writer strongly states that lateral support is mandatory. This is not
necessarily true. Good racers prefer to have their ankles free for more power
on the stroke. World-class skaters -- both quad and in-line -- will use
boots that are cut very low. However, substantial lateral support is very
useful for almost all non-racing types.
 
My other gripe, a small one, is that I view the RacerBlade as an excellent
commuting skate, not necessarily as only a beginner's racing skate. If you're
mainly interested in getting from Point A to B and already have some
experience, don't ignore the "Racer".
 
All in all, an excellent article. Some good ideas for folks who want to try
something other than Rollerblade skates. Check it out.
 
Phil Earnhardt          pae@netwise.com
Netwise, Inc.           Boulder, CO  (303) 442-8280
 

SWITCH-IT REVIEWS
-----------------
 
Switchit's address is:
 
Innovative Sport Systems, Inc.
6507 Cecilia Circle
Minneapolis, Mn 55439
 
Some of the SwitchIts features are nice.  Both my roomates have Switch-its, 
but have had some problems:
 
1) They have the lace up (not buckle ones), and they have an extremely 
   though time getting them tight, and keeping them tight.  I've never 
   seen the buckle version (probably the SwIt high end).
 
2) One pair came with very short axels, which weren't quite long enough, and 
   he had a wheel pop off while skating.  Very dangerous.  SwIt sent him a 
   new set of axels (where the threads came all the way though the bolts, not 
   just 1/2 way), and appologized, but I have to question their quality 
    control, and commitment to safety for ever shipping crap like this.
 
3) My one roomate and I do a lot of jumps and he's having problems with the 
   plastic hubs of his wheels crumbling.  Overall the wheels don't seem to 
   hold up under *heavy* stress.
 
I didn't really like the long wheelbase, or the fact that there is a 
un-removeable brake stop on each side.  I also liked the top buckle on the TRS.
 
-----
 
Yeah, I looked at SwitchIts, but:
 
* Their homegrown wheels looked cheap and flimsy.
* The "Laceless" model only has two buckles -- in fact it has lace
  holes so you can use both.
* They weren't all that comfortable
* They weren't all that cheap
* I don't do Ice right now, and as has been pointed out, swapping left
  and right runners is not an adequate way of rotating your wheels.
 
But on the positive side:
 
* I like the long wheelbase (back wheel farther back) and big wheels
* It has a little thingy to keep the liner heel from coming up off the
  heel of the boot while you skate
* They're lighter than a lot of skates (but not nearly as light as
  Aeros)
 
Can anyone tell us about the Reidell 601 Extreme?  I've heard this is
a good skate.
 
David B Rosen, Cognitive & Neural Systems         Internet: rosen@cns.bu.edu
 
-----
 
I have a pair of SwitchIts.  They're nice skates, and certainly
better than the standard hired RB's.  I tried on a pair of Macros,
but didn't like them.  I haven't tried the AeroBlades yet (but if I
like them, I may get a pair of them too).  
 
The SwitchIts are nice for these reasons:
 
1.  Most people have RB's, and I like to be different.
 
2.  They're good if you like Ice as well.
 
3.  Swapping wheels is very simple -- just swap all 4 at once
 
4.  No LACES!  This is the single best feature for me.  
    The velcro straps on some brands seem a little flimsy,
    and I don't like doing up laces.  I love the plastic
    bindings
 
5.  Mounting system allows you to retrofit your most comfortable
    existing boots for SwitchIts.  Useful for experienced skaters.
 
6.  Very comfortable, and seem to be light ( but I haven't seen
    any Aeros yet).  Good ankle support.
 
7.  There's an inner boot which may be easily removed and washed.
 
Against:
 
8.  The brake mountings extend a little too far back for my liking.
    Even if you remove the brakes, the mounts could get in the way
    during cross overs or when going down steps fast.
 
9.  The wheel base is a little long for sharp turns, spins or trix.
 
10. The boot can get a bit sweaty after 5 hours of skating.. :-)
 
11. There was only one color, a hideous bright orange, in my size.
    Some other brands use brighter colors.
 
Paul Gillingwater, paul@actrix.gen.nz
 
From: paul@actrix.gen.nz (Paul Gillingwater)
Message-ID: <1992Jan16.193117.12357@actrix.gen.nz>
Date: 16 Jan 92 19:31:17 GMT
 
I'm a SwitchIt owner.  I like them.
 
> 1)  Brakes are significantly smaller than other skates.  True, they give
> you two brakes, but neither brake frame is removable!  The smallish
> brake pads have less stopping power and wear faster than other
> manufacturer's brakes
 
Yes, they do wear faster.  The frame isn't removable, which can be a
hassle when going forwards down steps.
 
> 2) Only two buckles on the Switchit 1141.  Can you offer enough support
> with only two buckles?  Wear not talking some rear-entry ski boot here.
> In fact there are still holes so you can use laces for additional
> tightening.
 
I find that two can give enough support, at least for my needs.  I
have trouble with laces... :-)
 
> 3) Hubcaps on the wheels have been known to simply crumble, although
> this is due to higher-than-normal stress.  IMHO, hubcaps, although
> providing some scrape protection seems like just adding to the menage of
> wheel-geer parts.
 
Yep.   I have lost most of my hubcaps as a result of scrapes and
bangs.
 
> BUT, as much as I slam Switchits, there are many GOOD points:
> 
> 1) Long wheel base of 11.5 inches, good for a little more stabilty
> if you need it (i.e. don't do a lot of tricks/spins...) and can take
> 76mm wheels.
 
They're FAST too -- but that's the wheels I guess.
 
> 2) Although the brake *frame* is not removable, the brake pads
> themselves are changeable withOUT tools.  A big plus when you're on the
> go.
 
Quite right too.  Just unscrew them by hand.
 
> 3) Ability to swap wheels quickly (although, as it's been pointed out,
> this isn't as useful as it seems, since wheel rotation should include
> changing positions too).
 
This can be a benefit if you're lazy (like moi).
 
> 4) The only skate on the market to let you swap the rollerblade for a
> ice hockey blade.  (However, real ice hockey skates never have a hard
> urethane shell because it's too stiff.  As far as I can tell, ice hockey 
> players would rather have a soft leather shell for flexibility.)  
 
Quite right -- in fact one of the biggest drawbacks is the boot.  But
SwitchIt mechs (i.e. the heel plate) can be retrofitted to most pro
leather boots.  This is a big plus.
 
Paul Gillingwater, paul@actrix.gen.nz
 
 
From: rice@gambln.enet.dec.com (Tim Rice)
Message-ID: <1992Jan17.151542.13919@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1992 15:15:42 GMT
 
I owned a pair of the Micron hockey skates back around '80.  I grew up on
Bauer skates (Black Panthers, 92's, etc.).  When I got into my 20's my feet
were too wide for Bauer's anymore (to much trouble with in-grown toenails).
The Microns are the urethane (plastic) boot with an ICM blade.  They were a
nice skate except that motion side to side was too restrictive.  The boot
didn't pivot enough in that direction so I would "often" lose an edge and
wind up on my butt.  This finally happened once during a game where I got 
hurt, I went head first into the boards.  The skates were retired just after
that.
 
Other than that the boot was great.  It provided many advantages over a 
leather boot.  One I didn't see you mention was that it distributes the 
shock from a puck much better than leather.  Again this is speaking from
experience since I had some toes broken in this fashion.
 
After experimenting with different skates I'd buy leather because it is
still the best all around.  The only real disadvantages to leather are the
break in and down aspects.  They provide the most control.  The next problem
is in finding a leather skate.  I stay away from synthetics as much as
possible.  I prefer GRAF skates.  The break in period is very short.  The
break down period is also short (downside).  It is a very comfortable boot
and provides the most control I've found.  They are rather expensive 200+
for a hockey skate, considering they won't last 3 years.  An active high
school type player may only get one year out of them.  For someone my age
they're perfect, I get 3 years out of a pair.  It's about time for my third.
 
END SWITCHIT REVIEWS
-----

MACRO BLADES EQ/ES

From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: MacroBlade Equipes Review

I recently bought a pair of Macroblade Equipes(the new model).  I thought I would give a little review on them as I have not seen any yet.

My main reason for buying the Equipe was shoe size.  I really wanted the AeroBlades (for weight savings) but the biggest size was a 12.5 and I have a size 13 foot.  Several people in this group recommended that I try the Aeros.  Well I did and they were way too narrow.  The Equipe boot will accomodate wider feet much better. I ended up getting the Equipe in a 30.5 (biggest size available).

I have seen several postings comparing Aeros to Equipes.  From what I have read, most seem to think that Equipes are not rockerable like the Aeros.  Well the Equipes I have seem to have the same rockering combinations as the Aeros. Also the Equipes have ratcheting buckles like the Aeros.  The buckles on the Equipes seemed a little better.

The largest wheel that will fit is supposedly a 77 mm as opposed to 80 for the Aeros(Supposedly). The skates were equipped with 76mm 76A hyper wheels (Small hub).  The bearings were ABEC1 made in singapore (same as on my lightning TRS's). 

The Equipes have a cuff which allows some forward movement.  However it is not hinged like a Aero.  This is still hard to get use to.  I almost fell backward several times because of this (although this may have been for other reasons (wheel positioning)).  I consider the ankle support to be excellent compared to my lightnings.  

The Equipes also seem to have wheel positioning similar to the Aeros (i.e the front whell is more forward).  The front axle is lined up with the front of the boot. 

The liners are very comfortable although memory foam is not used.  There are holes in the liners for ventilation but these do not extend all the way through the foam.

The skates are vented like Aero's although not as much.

The skates have tremendously increased my skating ability (as opposed to lightning TRS's).  I seem to be able to go much faster now.  At high speeds I do not seem to have the skates wobble as much (eventhough the wheelbase difference is less than an inch).  My gliding ability (1 foot) has also increased dramatically, allowing more efficient strokes.

The price on the Macroblades was $279 (Aeros were $289).

METROBLADES
-----------

From: gt0258f@prism.gatech.EDU (James Garvey)
Subject: Re: MetroBlades - review requested

In article <1993May11.221207.731@news.uiowa.edu> thieleke@icaen.uiowa.edu (Jeffrey Ray Thieleke) writes:
>
>I'm looking for people's opinions on MetroBlades - good and bad.  Specifically,
>I'm interested in performance and comfort.
> 
I sent out a request for info on metroblades about 2 months ago and really 
didn't get much of a response.  My friend is getting ready to buy a pair in
New York City and he told me that the big problem is support around the 
ankles.  Rollerblade puts them in their "sport" category which is supposed to
be for "thrashing".  I'm not sure how much trashing you want to do in a boot
like the Metroblade.  Anyway, the general consensus was get a pair of sandals
or lightweight shoes and buy a pair of skates with buckles.  Then buy a 
fanny pack or something like that to carry your shoes while you skate.  Get
yourself a ski boot strap (handle with a loop of nylon) and carry your skates
like ski boots.  Most sports stores will give you a ski boot handle for free.

Here's a few of the replies regarding the Metroblade.  (Tony, I'm not sure if
you'd want to include these or not, but here they are for your review).

(original post)
>I have a friend that is getting ready to buy a pair of inline skates and is
>considering buying Rollerblade Metroblades.  This is the skate that has a
>built in boot inside of it that lets you "walk" out of the skate.  He's
>not planning on doing a lot of heavy duty skating, just to and from work.
>I would say that stalling and rail sliding would definitely be out!
> 
>His main concern is not having to carry around a pair of shoes when he
>skates.  Does anyone know anything about these skates?

I own a pair and am very happy with them, commuting to and from university
and generally around town.  _I_ might recommend them, but they're the only
skates I've used for extended amounts of time (i.e., non-rentals), so I
don't have much to compare them with.  I've heard other skaters (on this
board, in person, and in Inline magazine) complain that they're not really
up to snuff... that Rollerblade made too many performance degradations to
get the design to work.  The design _does_ work, though.  The shoes are
comfortable both inside the skates (though it hurts for a few days getting
used to how tight it needs to be to minimize wobble) and outside them (I've
hiked in the shoes.. no problem.  They look like they'll last quite a while
too).  Getting into and out of the skates is fast and easy.
	On the other hand, even folded up the skate shell is heavy and
unwieldy, perhaps not as much as whole blades, but they can't be stuffed in
a backpack unless the backpack's pretty empty (btw, Rollerblade is offering
a free backpack -- a $50 value! *snort* -- to purchasers of Metroblades.  I
haven't gotten mine yet, but I suppose the pack could be designed to carry 
the blade shell easily).  
	If your friend is planning to use the skates for organized
recreation (i.e.  hockey or half-pipes), or even for getting a bit radical
during the commute, probably a one-piece skate and a light pair of shoes
would be a better idea.  I'm happy with my pair, and wouldn't trade them in
for anything, but then I always wished I had a pair of key-roller-skates or
a fold-up-bike when I was younger.  I like to be portable. 

-eh

------------------------------------------------------------------
erik hilsdale 					eh@cs.columbia.edu



Word is that these are a clever idea, but the compromise is that you
may not get the best skate for the money you pay.  It they guys is fixed
on it it's probably survivable.  Is he an experienced skater, or just a
beginner trying to plan his fate?

The alternative would be a good 3-buckle skate that is very quick to
pop on/off and pair of really lightweight shoes he can carry in a fanny
pack or other tote.  There are some lightweight (soft sole) cycle shoes
and some that are even lighter for swimmers or something like that.

George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...



>The alternative would be a good 3-buckle skate that is very quick to
>pop on/off and pair of really lightweight shoes he can carry in a fanny
>pack or other tote.  There are some lightweight (soft sole) cycle shoes
>and some that are even lighter for swimmers or something like that.

This has been my solution - I have a pair of Teva sandals that I wear
when I'm off the blades, and they work pretty well - I carry them
around in my fanny pack.   I also have a loop of nylon cord with a
handle on it for carrying the skates when I'm wearing the sandals.
There's also an over-the-shoulder carry strap that you can get for
rollerblades, but I haven't tried it, so I don't know how well it
works...

			       _MelloN_
--
mellon@ncd.com						uunet!lupine!mellon
Member of the League for Programming Freedom.   To find out how software
patents may cost you your right to program, contact lpf@uunet.uu.net


From: eh@cs.columbia.edu (Erik Hilsdale)
Subject: Re: RB Metroblades:  good, bad, or ugly?

In article <91390@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0258f@prism.gatech.EDU (James Andrew Garvey) writes:
>I have a friend that is getting ready to buy a pair of inline skates and is
>considering buying Rollerblade Metroblades.  This is the skate that has a
>built in boot inside of it that lets you "walk" out of the skate.  He's
>not planning on doing a lot of heavy duty skating, just to and from work.
>I would say that stalling and rail sliding would definitely be out!
> 
>His main concern is not having to carry around a pair of shoes when he
>skates.  Does anyone know anything about these skates?

I own a pair and am very happy with them, commuting to and from university
and generally around town.  _I_ might recommend them, but they're the only
skates I've used for extended amounts of time (i.e., non-rentals), so I
don't have much to compare them with.  I've heard other skaters (on this
board, in person, and in Inline magazine) complain that they're not really
up to snuff... that Rollerblade made too many performance degradations to
get the design to work.  The design _does_ work, though.  The shoes are
comfortable both inside the skates (though it hurts for a few days getting
used to how tight it needs to be to minimize wobble) and outside them (I've
hiked in the shoes.. no problem.  They look like they'll last quite a while
too).  Getting into and out of the skates is fast and easy.
	On the other hand, even folded up the skate shell is heavy and
unwieldy, perhaps not as much as whole blades, but they can't be stuffed in
a backpack unless the backpack's pretty empty (btw, Rollerblade is offering
a free backpack -- a $50 value! *snort* -- to purchasers of Metroblades.  I
haven't gotten mine yet, but I suppose the pack could be designed to carry 
the blade shell easily).  
	If your friend is planning to use the skates for organized
recreation (i.e.  hockey or half-pipes), or even for getting a bit radical
during the commute, probably a one-piece skate and a light pair of shoes
would be a better idea.  I'm happy with my pair, and wouldn't trade them in
for anything, but then I always wished I had a pair of key-roller-skates or
a fold-up-bike when I was younger.  I like to be portable. 


AEROBLADE REVIEWS
-----------------

By the way, I love my new Aeros.  Much better glide than the Lightnings I had 
been using (rental loaners).
 
Something I thought was extra neat, although I haven't taken advantage of it 
yet, is that the rockering SLOTS are offset.  This allows a flat blade, a 
shallow rocker, a deep rocker, and combinations.
 
What do I mean?  This is the flat blade setup.
 
   ---               ---
   | |   ---   ---   | | 
   |x|   |x|   |x|   |x| 
   ---   | |   | |   --- 
         ---   ---      
 
I don't know, maybe this is an old idea, and the Aeros aren't first, but I 
*love* this kind of design detail!
 
-----
 
I have a pair of Aeroblades.  Here are my comments:
 
On the plus side:
 
* Boots very lightweight as mentioned.
* Ventilation good.
* Allows you to bend forward a lot.  (And not side to side, fortunately.)
* Boot positions shin tilted forward more than some other skates --
  encourages you to bend knees more -- a good position for skating
* Big wheels (76mm)
* ratchet buckles are pretty good
* lightweight but strong frames (runners)
 
End-on view of frames (very schematic):
 Aero     Other
_______  _______
\#   #/    | |
 \   /     | |
  | |      | |
 
 
Cons:
 
* The buckles don't "remember" your previous setting when you remove them 
  like the Macroblade ones do.  But you can always mark it with a felt tip 
  pen I suppose.
 
* The brake is like that on the lightnings and macroblade, but it is made 
  of "a new composite material" that SQUEALS LIKE HELL WHEN YOU BRAKE.  
  Scares the daylights out of unsuspecting pedestrians.  Rollerblade told me 
  this would stop when the brake pad was broken in, but it hasn't.  I just 
  bought a lightning replacement pad -- I hope this cures the problem.
 
* I've had some trouble with the fit to my feet.  These seem to be narrower
  than my old rollerblades.  They should really offer both D and E widths 
  like Bauer does.  It may also be that three buckles and a very thin boot 
  can't support the whole foot all that well.
 
* The place where the tongue overlaps with the rest of the liner digs two 
  ridges into my foot.  Also the footbed (insole) they come with is fairly 
  uncomfortable and non-anatomically-shaped.
 
* They seem to have missed some places that need ventilation. the areas under 
  the tongue and and the front and back of my ankles still get quite sweaty.
 
* On some skates the two parts of some of the buckles do not line up quite 
  parallel -- this could lead to premature wear or slipping.
 
* Some were shipped with wobbly wheels (non-true) -- but your Rollerblade
  dealer should replace them for you if you bring them back in.  Also
  the wheels are not centered with respect to the bearings, and they
  have a cheap-looking part on where I guess they were cut out of their
  mold during manufacturing.  Makes me want Hyper Wheels.
 
* Wheels aren't as light as the newer wheels from Hyper and Kryptonics.
 
* I've decided I like softer wheels, to handle those bumps more gracefully.
  Aeros are 78A so maybe my old Zetra 608s had 74A?  But I don't know of any 
  inlines that come with softer than 78A nowadays.  Maybe I'll splurge on 
  some new wheels.
 
* Front wheel is further forward than on other skates.  This is okay for 
  the experienced skater but I don't recommend it for a beginner because 
  this can make the skate unstable if you put your weight forward onto it.  
  This may make the skate faster for racing, but it also makes more leverage 
  that tends to lift your heel inside the boot, so proper fit becomes even 
  more important.  I think they should have moved all four wheels back a 
  little (maybe 1/4 inch), since having the back wheel back a little improves 
  stability.
 
* I don't like the color options -- can't they offer something more low key so 
  people outside of California aren't embarrassed to be seen in it? :-)
 
* NMB 608Z bearings (made in singapore).  I have heard that these are not as 
  good as the GMN 608Z german bearings that at least used to come in the 
  Lightnings.  Not that I've noticed any difference in performance myself.
 
* Back of the brake sticks out a little more than I think is necessary, which 
  can get in the way of crossovers if you're not careful.
 
* The frame spacer / bearing spacer / axle system is poorly designed.  It does 
  not hold the wheel quite straight, and it seems to bind the bearings a little
  when you tighten the bolts a lot, which you have to do to prevent the wheel 
  from slipping up and down a little during skating.  Before tightening there 
  is too much play and the frame spacer does not properly meet the bearing --
  one of them starts to slide off of the the other on one side.  I don't know 
  why, but the one pair of Lightnings I looked at were better than the Aeros in 
  this respect, even though they *appear* to have the same parts for this.
  Phil Earnhardt says Reidell has a superior spacer system.  I used to have the
  old metal-runner Zetra 608, which held the center of the bearing via metal 
  washers and spacers, and worked much better in that way.  They should make 
  the inner diameter of the frame and bearing spacers smaller to match the 
  axle, and the frame spacers and the inner part of the bearing spacers (which 
  holds the two bearings apart) should be made of aluminum instead of plastic.
 
I hope somebody at Rollerblade reads this.
 
David B Rosen, Cognitive & Neural Systems         Internet: rosen@cns.bu.edu
 
-----
 
David B. Rosen writes:
>I have a pair of Aeroblades.  Here are my comments:
>
>* The brake is like that on the lightnings and macroblade, but it is
>made of "a new composite material" that SQUEALS LIKE HELL WHEN YOU
>BRAKE.  Scares the daylights out of unsuspecting pedestrians.
 
It is pretty effective, though, at getting those dim-wits who don't
know what "on your left" means to move off the path... :-)
 
>* I've had some trouble with the fit to my feet.  These seem to be
>narrower than my old rollerblades.  They should really offer both D
>and E widths like Bauer does.  It may also be that three buckles and a
>very thin boot can't support the whole foot all that well.
 
Same here.  I've got relatively wide feet, and I'm just hoping that,
over time, my liners will compress a bit and my boots will stretch just
a bit to fit my feet better.
 
>* The place where the tongue overlaps with the rest of the liner digs
>two ridges into my foot.  Also the footbed (insole) they come with is
>fairly uncomfortable and non-anatomically-shaped.
 
Of all things, my heels are uncomfortable in my Aeroblades.  It feels
as though I'm putting far too much pressure on them.  Has anyone else
experienced this?
 
>* I don't like the color options -- can't they offer something more
>low key so people outside of California aren't embarrassed to be seen
>in it? :-)
 
Ditto!  I'm all for basic black...
 
-JC, jc@msc.edu
 
-----
 
The only suggestion I have is buy the best skates you can possibly
afford--and maybe even a pair that you can't REALLY afford, but by
scrimping somewhere else you can do it.  Or, alternatively, buy
a cheaper pair of skates but outfit them with high performance
wheels and A-grade bearings before you even hit the pavement (that
is probably the best solution, if you haven't got a lot of money).
 
I bought a pair of Rollerblade Zetra 303s in May on a whim.  They
cost $150, and I didn't want to "spend to much on something I might
not stick with."  Well, I didn't know it at the time but those skates
were inhibiting me, and within 20-30 miles the el-cheapo C-grade
bearings had melted down and left me with an inoperative pair of
blades.  Two months later I finally got around to calling the shop
where I got the skates to find out about getting them repaired under
warrantee.  They said it would take 8-10 weeks while they shipped
them to Minnesota, determined if it was really a warantee repair,
and then shipped them back--and there was no guarantee they wouldn't
charge me for the repair if they thought it was "my own fault."
 
Well, in 8-10 weeks there will be snow on the ground up here,
so I was a little upset.  I went out and bought a pair of AeroBlades
($300) in a fit of pique, and man I should have done that in the
first place!  All I can say is, for twice the money you get three
times the blade.  The fast wheels and bearings have a lot to do with
it, but the buckle (as opposed to lace) closure system is a dream.
A medium-priced alternative are the Lightnings, which have
buckle closures but not the fancy chassis.
 
I'll shut up and let someone who really knows what they're talking
about advise you, but I'll stick by the "best you can afford"
recommendation.
 
Andy, ANDY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
 
 
END AEROBLADE REVIEWS

                        = RACING SKATES REVIEWS =
 
In article <13914@aggie.ucdavis.edu> bunds@jade.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Can anyone give me information on brands of 5-wheel skates, besides
>racerblades, that are available?  I'd very much appreciate any info at 
>all.
>
>M. P. Bunds, U. C. Davis
 
The good news is that there are models from many different manufacturers.  I
have heard of models from Bauer, SwitcHit, Riedell, Rollerblade (Racerblade
plus the Pro Racer), Viking (A very good European ice speed-skating
manufacturer), Bont (Australian ice), etc.  There also is a movement for
manufacturers to sell racing boots with a pair of threaded bolts to attach
either blades or runners for wheels. Yeah! Standardization!
 
The bad news is that I've never seen anything other than the Racer in retail
markets.You're going to have to either travel to someone who sells the skates
or do it via mail-order. Marty Hill of Built for Speed sells stuff out of his
house in Syracuse, NY. Dave of SMR sports ((708) 387-0283) does the same out
of Riverside, IL. SoH ((800) 554-1235) was planning to sell the SwitcHit
5-wheeler when it became available.
 
If at all possible, I'd go in person to one of these stores and make sure you
find someone knowledgable about the long skates. You might be leary of SoH,
since they appear to have a pretty cozy arrangement with SwitcHit.
 
Have you tried the Racer? It's a bit on the heavy end for a 5-wheeler, but is
very robust and probably a good skate to start out on racing. (Heck, any of
the faster 4-wheelers are fine, too!) Some Rollerblade demo vans have the
Racer available; you can try a pair there. Some very good racers are winning
races on the Racerblade.
 
One other piece of good news: Rod Murillo, a member of Team Krypto, is now
reading alt.skate. Welcome! He's far more qualified to talk about racing
than I am; he might have some suggestions for you.
 
Phil Earnhardt          pae@netwise.com
 
-----
 
From: betsy@alf.sybase.com
Date: 13 Nov 91 23:06:25 GMT
 
I got some new racing skates about 2 months ago. I love them!!! I tryed
on Zanstras and Racerblades. Looked into Bauer and leather boots (from
Built for Speed). After all my looking...I bought Ultras from Sventech
in Seattle (sold by Ultra). 
 
Here are thoughts that might help others who are looking at racing skates.
 
Zanstras
 
There are three problems with Zanstras, from my point of view. Firstly,
the bearings "seem" really cheap. They aren't as smooth as I would like
and they make too much noise. Secondly, the boot is really
uncomfortable. A number of racers have complained that they bind the top
of their feet too much. In fact, some people cut out the sizes of their
boots. I found this true when I tryed them on. Finally, my size (6-6
1/2) only comes with four wheels....great why buy racing skates. The
good thing about Zanstras is that they are pretty light.
 
Racerblades
 
The Racerblades are really comfortable! It's like riding in pillows.
However, it's also like using a limo in a road race. They felt too
big and heavy (though I don't really remember their weight). Once I felt
the weight, I knocked them off the list...so I can't comment on the
bearings or wheels.
 
Bauer
 
As with the Zanstras, the Bauers don't have 5 wheels in my size.
However, the boot looked really comfortable. I knocked them out as soon
as I heard about the wheel limit.
 
Leather Boots 
 
Sorry...I may be into skating....but I would like to try and stay out of
the poor house. I was looking at spending $700 to $800 for leather
boots. Maybe if I ever get close to beating Karen Edwards or the other
top women skaters, I'll think about it...but I think that will take more
than just new skates.
 
Ultras 
 
The Ultras have a titanium frame. The lengths come in 13, 14 and 15
inches. The boots are very comfortable (I can usually keep them on for
three hours before they bother me). The boot fit is like the Racerblades
with a buckle and wide fit, but the shell is very light. The boot can be
molded to your foot with a dryer or hot water. In a rough estimate,
with 5 wheels they are about the same weight as my 4 wheel
Rollerblade 608s.
 
I guess what finally made the sale..was Bancroft hill in Berkeley. I can
jam down Bancroft without any shaking. The ride is very smooth. The
bearings are smooth and fast. By the by...they come with Hyper Wheeles.
 
The only problem is...no brake. So, I may not need it for racing....but
I would like one for working out. Berkeley drivers don't know what to do
with a skater.
 
I guess my advise is...try on everything (in your price range). Some
people swear by skates I rejected. What everyone is looking for in a
skate is different. I wanted good low weight racing skates.
 
Still plowing down hills....
 
betsy
 
By-the-by, does anyone know of something to put on road rash (second
skin or the likes)?
 
-----
 
From: Donn Baumgartner, donn@dell.dell.com
 
I can recommend the Xandstra Skeelers, which are available locally from
Riedel, without hesitation.  I have used these skates on the OMRA circuit
for the last two years and am very pleased with them.
 
I have the Xandstra 6000 - but got it directly from Walter Xandstra a few
years ago when he came to the New York race.  I use the Hyper 80mm wheels...
and prefer the harder (82A) wheels, but many racers prefer the 78A's and
even the 75A's.  Personal preference... but the harder wheels hold up a
little longer.
 
There are many shops nationally that carry this (and many more) inline
skates... such as:
 
        Competition Skates                Trailways Skate Rental
        c/o John Skelton                  c/o Tom Sehlhorst
        501 Springville Cr.               611 Palm Bluff
        Birmingham AL 35215               Clearwater FL 33515
        (205) 854-9617                    (813) 461-9736
        
        Montrose Skate                    Shop Skate Escape
        c/o John McKay                    c/o Janice Phillips
        1406 Stanford                     1086 Piedmont Ave
        Houston TX 77019                  Atlanta GA 30309
        (713) 528-6102                    (404) 892-1292
 
I've done phone/mail/direct business with every one of these shops... they
are all reputable.  Competition Skates and Trailways Skate are both run by
active members of OMRA (Outdoor Marathon Rollerskating Association), and both
John and Tom are racing 'experts' (in some sense).
 
And a final comment... get a subscription to Speedskating Times... for $15/year
it's the best thing going.  Dave Cooper, Eddy Matzger, and Marty Hill regularly
write articles in it.
 
-----
 
From: mpeters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters)
Message-ID: <1149@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>
Date: 10 Mar 92 13:41:32 GMT
 
las writes:
>I'm planning to buy a pair of speed inline skates. Need advice as
>to which brand I should purchase. Would like a skate under $350.00.
 
For under $350.00, if it's a racing skate you want, I would check
out the Bont skate packages that Special Equipment C0. has to offer.
(Phone:508-266-1612)  They have Bont Sharkie boots with Zandstra
frames, wheels and German bearings for $315.  These are leather
boots with fiberglass counters that you heat and mold to your foot.
This is a much hotter setup for speed than buying a citizen racing
skate, that has gobs of padding inside, i.e. Racerblade or Bauer
XR-10, besides they're cheaper too.  The last I heard the XR-10 may
go for $385 and the Rollerblade Pro-Blade $450.  The Rollerblade
Racerblade is in your range, but it's a bit heavy, though if you
don't skate that much, you may like the additional support that the
Racerblade gives.
 
Mike.Peters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!mpeters
 
Article 2544 of rec.skate:
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Path: caen!destroyer!wsu-cs!vela!m.cs.uiuc.edu!biske
From: biske@cs.uiuc.edu (Todd Biske)
Subject: Re: AeroBlades vs. Roces Barcelona model
Message-ID: <1992Aug27.025101.23699@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
References: <1992Aug26.215318.26669@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:51:01 GMT
 
shandley@leland.Stanford.EDU (Simon Handley) writes:
 
>Does anyone know what the difference is between Aeroblades and the
>Roces "Barcelona" model?  
 
The Barcelona and the Aeros are actually quite a bit different.  Roces used
to manufacture all RollerBlade boots, but this is no longer the case.  
RollerBlade boots are now made my Nordica.  Anyways, here goes:
 
Similarities:
        Both boots are vented
        Both have Memory Foam liners
        Both use a three buckle system on the boots
        Both come with 76mm 78A wheels
 
Differences:
        Aeroblade boot is vented much better.  The vents are larger and more
          numerous.
        The Aeroblade boot is made from BladeLite (tm) while the Barcelona 
          uses the same material as the CoolBlade (polyurethane?) which 
          results in a 15% heavier boot.
        Aeros have a graduated brake, can also accept older style RollerBlade
          brakes.
        Barcelona uses a custom Roces brake, not commonly available for people
          in the cornfields of the midwest like myself. 
        Barcelona tends to run $30-$40 cheaper than the Aeros.  
 
I just purchased a pair of Aeros from Courtesy Sports in Los Altos (before I
drove back to Illinois for school) and did a lot of research on the Roces vs.
RollerBlade debate, and I think I bought the better skate.  That's an 
opinion however.  My final decision was made when I tried on BOTH skates at
Courtesy.  Then my mind was made up.
 
-tb
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in 
 life as by the obstacles which he has overcome while trying to succeed."
                                                - Booker T. Washington
Todd Biske - U of I Dept. of Computer Science - biske@cs.uiuc.edu - 2434 DCL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
=END OF PART 5==================================================================

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part6


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 6:  WHERE TO SKATE (Indoors)

last changed: May 5, 1993 

(The listings are not really organized in any coherent fashion.  My apologies
but I don't have time to take care of this.  If anyone else wants to do a
quick editing job on it though...feel free 8-)  -T. Chen  )
                              
 
                         LISTING OF INDOOR SKATING RINKS
                         -------------------------------
                         (collected by Albert Boulanger)
 
 
 
From: Robert John Butera <rbutera@rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Good rinks in Texas
 
In Houston:   Trade Winds Roller Rink
 
              5006 W. 34th.  Just East of highway 290 just north of
                                                             I-610.
 
Adult night is Thursdays, 7:30-10.  Not as much dance music as I'd
like, though there is some every night.  A lot of the crowd seems
to favor classic rock, but everything is played.
 
-----
 
From: "Rebecca Y. Shen" <rebecca@cco.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Northern) LA?
 
I live in Pasadena, but I haven't ventured around the Greater LA basin, so I can   
only comment on three nearby rinks: Glendale, San Gabriel, and West Covina.   
Personally, I figure/freestyle skated (and am now on ice), so after the first  
couple months I stopped going to the crowded adult sessions.
 
Stats:
Floor Size: 
   West Covina -- Big
   Glendale    -- Medium
   San Gabriel -- Small
 
Floor type:
   West Covina -- Synthetic/Plastic ?? 
   Glendale    -- Wood (good condition)
   San Gabriel -- Wood (OK condition)
 
In-lines
   West Covina -- Yes/Rent
   Glendale    -- NO
   San Gabriel -- Yes
 
 
Time-distance (from central Pasadena -- say Lake and Colorado):
   West Covina -- 20 minutes / 30+ minutes (rush hour)
   Glendale    -- 10 minutes
   San Gabriel -- 10 minutes 
 
-----
 
 
From: rebecca@cco.caltech.edu      Mark L. Fussell
 
My favorite is Moonlight Rollerway in Glendale: it is close, has a large enough   
rink, and has nice skaters/management. 
 
Approximate hours (I am removing the half hours, so 8 may actually be 7:30):
   Wed,Fri: 3-5        --  This is a "kid" session, but is not at all crowded,
                           so ideal for "fancy skating". 
 
   Sat,Sun: ?1-3,3-5   --  Crowded "kid" sessions
 
   Fri,Sat: 8-10,10-12 --  Crowded Adult/Teenage sessions, Modern music
   Thu:     8-10       --  ?? A less crowded Adult/Teenage session, 
                           possibly more Adults 
 
   Wed:     8-10       --  Dance session, Organ Music (open to everyone, 
                           but has a lot of dance-pairs, and about 
                           20 minutes of organised dances). 
 
   Tue:     8-10       --  Never been: think it is adult with ?? jitterbug,
                           disco, modern music ??
 
   Sun:     8-10       --  Gay night, open to anyone (who doesn't mind the  
couples, and a couple dances you might not want to join). I've never been, but  
I know straight people who do go. 
 
--
West Covina's hours should be similar to Glendale, although I know the rinks in 
6 
the area rotate some of the special adult sessions with each other. West Covina  
has more people, and a big center area for spot Rexxing. 
--
San Gabriel may also be similar to Glendale, but I wouldn't recommend it 
because6  
of the small floor, and no one that I have met ever suggested it. 
--
 
I'll send you the exact addresses/phone numbers later. 
 
Friends from skating have recommended North Hollywood, Reseda, and several other   
places, but I don't know anything beyond that. If you go to one of the adult  
sessions at Glendale there will be several people to ask.
 
-----
 
From: Erica Nowicki <k080116@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
 
        I was a speedskater on the circut in michigan for a few years, and am
an avid rink-hopper, and worked at 1 for 4 years.  Here is a record of some of
my findings :
 
*note these are all PERSONAL opinions given as truthfully as possible.
@= rink that hold meets.
 
Skateland of Woodhaven, Woodhaven, MI (homebase):  Usually a friendly crowd,
        but the floor needs to be redone in my opinion the speeds tend to be
        kept at a reasonable pace for sessions and the crowd under control.
 
        Music.
 
Dixie Skateland, Monroe MI: They need a better floor and sound system and
        their regular crowd is obnoxious.
 
@Skatin' Station, Canton, MI:  This is the place that State Meets are usually
        held along with a thanksgiving invitational that usually has a pretty
        good representation from a good number of states.  Their floor is
        excellent along with their sound system, but I tend to find that their
        sessions lacking.
 
Riverside Arena, Livonia, MI:  This rink I recommend highly, they have an
        excellent floor, and their sessions are awsome.  I attend these
        sessions quite frequently even though it is almost an hour from my
        home.
 
All Skate, Jackson, MI: They have a decent floor, and their crowd is one of
        the friendliest that I have seen in a long time, they also have a
        decent sound system, they do have very strict rules though which may
        turn alot of the better skaters off.
 
Rollerworld, Kalamazoo, MI:  Well, this rink is in a shopping mall, they do
        need a new floor, they have strict rules,  and need a new sound system
        but their crowd is nice for the most part.
 
I have gone to other rinks, but have only been once mainly for competition and
cannot give an accurate impression though that only.....
        Have a nice day...
        
-----
 
From: carl@udwarf.tymnet.com (Carl Baltrunas & Cherie Marinelli 1.5)
Subject: Re: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Northern) LA?
 
In article <ABOULANG.92Jan31210737@pilsner.bbn.com>, aboulang@bbn.com (Albert Bo 
ulanger) writes:
 
> I have been thinking that it may be a good idea to build a
> network-wide resource of good roller skating rinks around the world.
                          ^^^^^^
> (Any good rinks in U.K. or Australia?) I have checked out rinks in
> Denver, Silicon Valley, San Diego, LA, Ft. Lauderdale area, Daytona,
> Orlando, NYC, Boston, the Twin Cities MN, Chicago, Toronto, and
> Washington DC. I will take the time out to compile a list if people
> supply me information.
> 
> Have to travel -- will skate, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@bbn.com
 
I've not had to travel as much as I would like, but I've skated in the
Washington DC metro area (includes MD & VA), Baltimore MD, St. Louis,
Portland OR, Silicon Valley [live here] and LA with reasonable success.
 
I used to get "Skate" Magazine (guess I ought to renew it) and I would
look through the previous year or two to find the names of rinks that had
figure/dance/free-style tests results to find the names of rinks to look
up in the phone books when I got to a city I was visiting for more than a
couple of days.
 
This, of course, does NOT include all the available rinks... just ones that
have artistic/speed skating clubs... but in any given area, that's where
I'd prefer to skate anyway.
 
With a little work, I should be able to remember the places I've skated if
you/anyone is interested, with some critique of the place.
 
As for the LA area, there are at least half a dozen good rinks and probably
more with a little driving.  They usually have a good showing at the SW
Regional meets and I know a few teachers from that area.  SkateWay in in
the Pasadena (I think) area was ok, but I think they were a pretty small
rink. It was 6 years ago I was there.
 
Randall mentioned restrictions about backwards skating, et al in a lot of
rinks.  That's one reason to look for a rink with a club.  They are a lot
more tolerant of things like that if you show that you are a competant
skater.  Having a past or current amateur card is helpful too...  Also if
you get a chance to talk to the owner/mgmt and let them know you are from
out-of-state and not just a regular, they may be more apt to let you do
things they harrass other skaters about.
 
My wife and I were in Baltimore and went to a "practice" session and talked
to the pro there about some floor time and she hemmed and hawed a bit then
said she'd have to talk to the management.  While we all walked toward the
office, we mentioned that our coach as Wayne Melton (a reasonably known SW
and US champion skater/teacher).  She immediately stopped and told us to
put on our skates without even bothering to go to the office.  If the rink
is truly interested in skaters and skating in general, they will try to
accomodate out-of-town skaters if you are open and honest with them about
what you want to do.
 
-----
 
From: bill@franklin.com (bill)
Subject: Roller skating rinks (was: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Nort 
hern) LA?)
Summary: what I like near south/central NJ
 
In article <ABOULANG.92Jan31210737@pilsner.bbn.com> aboulanger@bbn.com writes:
: (Any good rinks in U.K. or Australia?) I have checked out rinks in
: Denver, Silicon Valley, San Diego, LA, Ft. Lauderdale area,
 
There are still good rinks in Ft. Lauderdale? That's my home turf
and the rink I started at, Gold Coast, has, I'm told, been
converted to a Salvation Army store or somesuch. Sad; it used to
be the oldest rink in the state. When I left about two years ago,
there wasn't much else in the area.
 
:  I will take the time out to compile a list if people
: supply me information.
 
I'm primarily a dance skater, so my evaluations are from that
standpoint. Here are the rinks I've visited since I moved up here.
 
In Burlington county, New Jersey, there is the Holiday Skating
rink in Delanco, just off 130. It has a very large floor, in
pretty good shape, though not as well maintained as it used to
be. They have a competent, if uninspired, live organist on
Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday evenings. Tuesday is a crowded
session; the other two are fairly peaceful. I hear the organist
also does a late night session Friday (Saturday?) of just R&Rish
music but I've never been to that session.
 
Down in Gloucester county, there are two rinks. Skater's Choice,
in Hurffville (I think), on 47 near 55, has a decent Wednesday
night organ session. Dave Paden (sp?) plays and he's good. The
rink floor is average size and fairly well maintained. The rink
has a reasonable crowd but one can skate through it.
 
Speaking of Dave Paden, he also plays at the Cornwells rink. This
is just a bit east of Philadelphia on 13. This is on Tuesdays and
Thursdays. These sessions are not awfully crowded and the folk
are a bit older than in the other sessions I've mentioned. The
floor is average size but not quite as good as the one at
Skater's Choice. (This info is about a year old.)
 
Back to Gloucester county is the rink I skate out of, the
Deptford rink, just off 47 near 295. Besides having some good
pros, its main claim to fame is NO SMOKING, none at all in the
building. Since most of the other rinks tend to be smokeholes and
I'm allergic to it, I really like that. Unfortunately, it has a
small floor that has definitely seen better days. And the one
organ session they have, on Thursdays, is tapes and very poorly
attended. The tapes aren't very good, either. Sigh. (This is
likely to change; the management is letting some of the club
skaters run the session. With any luck, they'll do better. But if
you are interested in this session, you really should call the
rink instead of just going.)
 
Finally, there is the Rollerama rink in Levittown, Pennsylvania,
on 413 between 95 and 1. This had, a year ago anyway, a Sunday
evening session. This rink is also fairly small and the floor
could be in better shape, though it is better than Deptford's.
That session is also just tapes.
 
-----
 
Subject: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Northern) LA?
 
Thanks for your input. Here is the info I had for LA (that is not on
your list -- spelling questionable):
 
Reseda: Sherman Square Roller Rink.
18430 Sherman Way. 818 345-6902
(Thursday 8:30-1:30)
 
Grand Terrace: Calif Skate
22080 Indust(?)  824-8114
 
San Bernadino: Stardust RR
2167 N Lugo      883-1103
 
Torrance: Shamrock
1851 Mullin Ave  328-7150
 
Riverside: Calif Skate
12710 Magnolia Ave   354-7060
 
Montclair: Holiday RR
9191 Central Ave     626-0501/982-9150
 
Saugus: Skate in Place
21616 Golden Triangle Rd  255-8453
 
Bakersfield:
 
  Rollerama
  1004 34th  (805) 327-7859
 
  Skateland
  415 Ming Av 831-5537
 
  Starlight
  30 Kentucky 322-5661
 
  Rollertown
  2200 Wibble Rd 833-2525
 
-----
 
From: "Rebecca Y. Shen" <rebecca@cco.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Northern) LA?
 
The following are the addresses:
   Glendale    -- Moonlight Rollerway, 5110 San Fernando Rd.
                  818.241-3630
   San Gabriel -- Fiesta Roller Rink, 136 S. San Gabriel Bl.  
 
                  818.287-6669
   West Covina -- Skate Junction, 901 W. Service Ave.
                  818.960-4402
 
also names from the White Pages (so possibly not rinks):
   Cerritos    -- Skate Depot, 11113 E-183rd
                  310.924-0911
   Whittier    -- Skateland, 12520 E. Whittier Blvd.
                  310.693-9618
   
 
Also, I saw in an ad the Moonlight claims both Tuesday and  
Wednesday are Organ Music, so I may have been wrong about Tuesday  
nights, or the ad may be out of date.
 
-----
 
From: geo@shilah.Eng.Sun.COM (george atkins)
Subject: Re: Any good rink roller skaing in greater (Northern) LA?
 
In the Bay Area (San Francisco, not Hudson) there are a handful of skating 
rinks, though not as many as one would think, probably because the weather is 
mild year-round.
 
The closest rink to San Fracisco is the Rolladium in San Mateo, about a twenty
minute drive south from the City.  Right off of Hwy 101 and real convenient to
the airport (in case you can't wait and want to skate right off the plane.)
It has a wood floor and a very nice sound system.  Friendly regulars, but not
very crowded for some reason.  They've played funky music the times I've been 
there, but I've only been on Tuesday nights. (415) 342-2711
 
In Milpitas there is Cal Skate at I-680 and Hwy 237.  I've never been there but 
I hear Wednesday and Sunday nights are wild.  I hear they play a lot of hip hop, 
have a polyurethane floor and a host of excellent skating regulars to pick 
things up from (big dance scene in the middle.)  Milpitas is about 35 miles 
south of  Oakland in the East Bay, but very convenient to San Jose. (510) 946-
1366
 
Next up there is Golden Skate in San Ramon.  I was there for adult night.  The
floor is nice and they played some nice music, but too much heavy metal for
my tastes (makes everybody skate real fast and fall down a lot.)  It's a good
45 minute drive from the City. Way out in the 'burbs.  (510) 820-2525
 
I've heard nice things about the Aloha Roller Palace in San Jose at 397 Blossom
Hill Rd. off of Hwy 101.  I've never been there but I've heard that it's a real
skate scene, especially on Friday nights.  The place is said to be large.  Not
sure what the floor is made of, but if you're going to San Jose give them a
call and you can tell me! (408) 226-1156 (message line) or 226-1155
 
But the ultimate skating experience in the Bay Area in my opinion is Golden
Gate Park on Sundays.  the park is closed to traffic on that day (certain agents 
are trying to close it on Saturdays, too.)  The weather is great (actually 
better in the winter than the summer it seems)  And there are *tons* of skaters 
cruising up and down the roads, in-line and quad, as well as skate boards, 
bicycles, horses (well, okay, only the police.)  There's a wild dance scene at 
6th Ave from noonish until dark. (Bay Area skaters - am I right?)  There are two 
places I know of that rent skates that are walking distance to the park; Skates 
on Haight and Magic Skate at Fulton and 6th.  Be there or be square!
 
 
From: aboulang@bbn.com (Albert Boulanger)
Subject: Re: Speed (Now Denver area rinks)
Date: 20 Apr 92 10:52:44
 
In article <1992Apr19.142227.27310@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pearnhar@isis.cs.du.edu
(Philip A. Earnhardt) writes:
 
   You should hook up with a speed program. There are speed roller skating
   programs at the rink in Longmont, CO, and a couple of rinks in Colorado
   Springs. I'd guess there's at least one in Denver; ask around.
 
Can you post the names of the rinks you know of in the area? (For
potential roller skating visitors to the front range?)
There is a rink off of Coal Mine Rd in South Denver that I have
visited. It is called Starport as I recall. Other names that I have
for the Denver area:
 
Skate City  -- Aurora    344-3321
               Arapahoe  770-2223
               Littleton 795-6109
               Meadowood 690-1444
Rollerama                288-0502
Starport       S Denver  972-4433
US on Wheels             ???
Roller City              ???
 
 
Travel, will skate,
Albert Boulanger
aboulanger@bbn.com
 
 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 13:12:52 -0400
From: Susan Harbour <harbour@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com>
 
   I just read your rink-request in rec.skate. I have been to Austin Tx. 
a couple of times this year and I have been to two roller rinks there. I 
believe there are three in the city, but I was only able to locate two
of them (two of them are called Skateworld, I was only able to locate one of 
the Skateworlds. I *think* the other is either a practice rink or an ice rink, 
but I only ever got to hear their answering machine, so I don't know for sure.)
The third rink (Playland) is probably not one that you want to go to (I know
I never want to go back.) It's a pink epoxy coated concrete floor, which *can*
be a real nice skating surface, but this one is used for Bingo about five 
nites a week, and has these pot holes in the epoxy that go right into the 
concrete....I was afraid I'd ruin my (then new) dance wheels. It's really 
pretty seedy, and it's also ridiculously hard to find.
        Skateworld (the one I found) sounds like what you are looking for. 
The times I've been there they've played top 40 music, but I believe they have
*adult* nites and Christian nites. The floor is wood, (a little small I think)
but set up very much like the Skate 3 rink in Tyngsboro, (though the floor is a
natural wood color and a whole lot smoother than Tyngsboro.) The crowd is 
generally not very big, and most of the times I've been there the floor has 
also been reasonably clean (so you're not picking up a quarter inch of goop 
on your wheels, making it feel like you're skating on a washboard.) Though
at least once that I was there I left after 40 minutes because it was so 
cruddy. I've seen them have a "race" now and again between songs during
certain sessions, but I guess speed skating is more popular in Texas than
dance skating.
        Anyway...directions....
        Take I-35 north (north of the Airport which is north
of the 'downtown' area) take the Rundberg exit and go west on Rundberg
to Lamar Blvd. Take a right on Lamar (you should see an HG supermarket)
and go just past the HG parking lot, and take a left on Rutland Dr. 
The rink will be on  your right. (You can see it from the HG parking lot).
        I can't find my list of sesssion times, so you'll have
to call them when you get there. 
        I didn't go scouting outside of the city much since my stays in 
Austin are generally only two or three days, and I never get a whole lot
of exploration time. But, I thought I'd tell you what I know!
 
-----
 
From: sastls@mvs.sas.com, ASTLS@mvs.sas.com
Subject: Re: Roller Skating vacation: Miami FL, Austin TX, Sante Fe NM
 
The biggest (best) rink in Austin is Playland.  They are installing a brand new 
floor AS WE SPEAK (write).  They will be letting everyone skate on it this 
Friday night for the 1st time.  I tried to call and found out all I can get is a 
recording until Friday when they reopen.  I was going to ask when the adult 
session is for you -- I'll let you know on Monday if you won't be on your 
vacation yet. ???  There are only about 3 rinks in Austin and that's the best 
one.  It is about a block from 183 and Burnet Rd.
 
-----
 
From:  Randal L. Schwartz, <merlyn@iwarp.intel.com >
 
Someone asked about rinks... My fav was Aloha Skate Palace in South
San Jose (or something like that) on a Monday night.  Great songs,
good crowd.  Cal Skate in Milpitas was also good, and they had a wood
floor (not the silly blue stuff that is so prevalent now).
 
The rinks within 30 minutes of Portland have gone from 7 to 3 in the
last few years.  Has this happened elsewhere?  None of them were
because of lack of business... most were because the landlords decided
that putting in yet another discount clothes store or strip mall was a
better deal.  Just what we needed.  Sigh.
 
-----
 
Ok, since this seems to include all types of skating (at least with
wheels!) I will make myself know as a rollerskater. My regular indoor
rink is Christiana here in Newark Delaware. Several champion figure
skaters have come from here. I never really paid attention to that fact
until I was skating at a rink in Ohio. A woman asked me where I was
from. After I told here that I usually skate at a rink in Delaware, she
said, "Oh yeah. I have heard of Christiana. [name I don't remember] came
from there."
 
During the summer I perform outside at a park near the waterfront in
Philadelphia (Penn's Landing). There is a group that gets together from
around the Philly area to Jam on Sunday afternoons, and many of the
Holidays. If you are ever in Philly on a sunday come on down and see us.
The "stage" is between Society Hill towers and the waterfront. Next to
the Vietnam Memorial.
 
-----
 
From: Russell Turpin <turpin%cs.utexas.edu.uucp@BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: On using both feet (was: sorting it out)
 
I like PlayLand, which is on 183, just east of MoPac and just west
of Burnet Rd.  (Coming north on MoPac, take 183 South (really east)
and then bear right on the access road.  Turn right at the stop
sign and PlayLand is about a block down behind a car dealership.)
 
They have adult nights on Tuesdays and Sundays.  Two of my coworkers
-- one of whom is pretty good -- and I skate there pretty regularly.
There is a good group of regulars.
 
 
-----
 
From: "Tamara Shaffer, x3222" <SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Rinks in Austin
 
> I thought you all would like to know about each others opoinion's
> about Austin's rinks:
 
> ****************************************************************
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 13:12:52 -0400
> From: Susan Harbour <harbour@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com>
> To: aboulanger@BBN.COM
>
> Hi Albert,
>       I just read your rink-request in rec.skate. I have been to Austin Tx.
> a couple of times this year and I have been to two roller rinks there. I
> believe there are three in the city, but I was only able to locate two
> of them (two of them are called Skateworld, I was only able to locate one of
> the Skateworlds. I *think* the other is either a practice rink or an ice 
rink,M
> but I only ever got to hear their answering machine, so I don't know for 
sure.M)
 
The other Skateworld is a working skating rink.  It is small.  It is
located in northwest Austin in Anderson Mill.  This is north on 183
about 1-1/2 miles (?) south of 620 at Anderson Mill Rd.
 
> The third rink (Playland) is probably not one that you want to go to (I know
> I never want to go back.) It's a pink epoxy coated concrete floor, which 
*can*M
> be a real nice skating surface, but this one is used for Bingo about five
> nites a week, and has these pot holes in the epoxy that go right into the
> concrete....I was afraid I'd ruin my (then new) dance wheels. It's really
> pretty seedy, and it's also ridiculously hard to find.
 
A *lot* of things in Austin are hard to find.  There is a lot of
road work in the area of Playland.  We live with it.  Oh well.  I can
appreciate what she is saying, but considering their work they are
doing, and that it will be brand spanking new while you are here, I
figured it would be the best one to check out.  :)
 
>       Skateworld (the one I found) sounds like what you are looking for.
> The times I've been there they've played top 40 music, but I believe they 
haveM
> *adult* nites and Christian nites. The floor is wood, (a little small I 
think)M
> but set up very much like the Skate 3 rink in Tyngsboro, (though the floor is 
Ma
> natural wood color and a whole lot smoother than Tyngsboro.) The crowd is
> generally not very big, and most of the times I've been there the floor has
> also been reasonably clean (so you're not picking up a quarter inch of goop
> on your wheels, making it feel like you're skating on a washboard.) Though
> at least once that I was there I left after 40 minutes because it was so
> cruddy. I've seen them have a "race" now and again between songs during
> certain sessions, but I guess speed skating is more popular in Texas than
> dance skating.
>       Anyway...directions....
>       Take I-35 north (north of the Airport which is north
> of the 'downtown' area) take the Rundberg exit and go west on Rundberg
> to Lamar Blvd. Take a right on Lamar (you should see an HG supermarket)
> and go just past the HG parking lot, and take a left on Rutland Dr.
> The rink will be on  your right. (You can see it from the HG parking lot).
 
Like I said, look for the HEB.  I haven't been to this one, but I know
her directions work.
 
> *******************************************************************
> Posted-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 90 11:00:15 CST
> From: Russell Turpin <turpin%cs.utexas.edu.uucp@BBN.COM>
> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 90 11:00:15 CST
> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (6.5.6 6/30/89)
> To: aboulanger@BBN.COM
> Subject: Re: On using both feet (was: sorting it out)
>
> I like PlayLand, which is on 183, just east of MoPac and just west
> of Burnet Rd.  (Coming north on MoPac, take 183 South (really east)
> and then bear right on the access road.  Turn right at the stop
> sign and PlayLand is about a block down behind a car dealership.)
 
The street is McCann and it's a Nissan dealership.  Hope that helps!
 
> They have adult nights on Tuesdays and Sundays.  Two of my coworkers
> -- one of whom is pretty good -- and I skate there pretty regularly.
> There is a good group of regulars.
>
> Russell
 
-----
 
From: Andrew D. Abbott| <abbottad@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu>
Subject: Re: Good rink roller skating in Detroit?
 
In rec.skate article <ABOULANG.92Apr27134019@pilsner.bbn.com> you  
wrote:
 
> I will be traveling to Detroit and would like to know if there are
any good roller rink sessions in the general area.
 
On occasion there is in-line skating at the Pontiac Silverdome and at  
the Joe Louis Arena. I'm not sure if these fit your idea of a good  
roller rink (I've never skated there), but they may be interesting  
places to skate. You may have to do some checking around, though, to  
find out when the times are. Otherwise, Shores Skateland in  
Mt.Clemens may have what your interested in.
I hope this has been just a bit helpful.
 
-----
 
From: aboulang@bbn.com (Albert Boulanger)
Subject: Roller Skating vacation - Rinks in Florida (USA Rinks)
 
I went skating in several rinks/cities in Florida. Here is a breakdown
by day of adult skating session in Florida. One generalization that I
have made is: USA (United Skates of America) rinks are a cut above
the rest in general. They all seem to have a varied session schedule
to meet the tastes of a varied clientele. I have been to USA rinks in
Chicago, and Minneapolis. In addition the one in Tampa (which I
visited but did not skate at a session) has the same type of schedule.
 
================================================================
Adult Roller Skating (indoor) in Florida
================================================================
 
Sunday
****************
 
Semomoram Skateway Orlando, 407 834-9095, 834-9106 (manager)
8-11
Comments:OK, Speed (shuffle) oriented music. They did play some techno.
 
The Palace, Lantana (West Palm Beach), 407 967-0311
8-11:30
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Gold Coast, Ft Lauderdale, 305 523-6783
7:30-11
Comments: Dead session and they were going to cancel it. "Floating
floor" which is a floor built on wood beams so that it rebounds. These
floors are really nice!
 
Skate Mania, Ocala
7-10
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Galaxy Skateway, Palm Beach Gardens (West Palm Beach) 407 627-4554
7-10
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Skate Odyssey, Tampa 813 935-2000
??? (Never got hours)
Comments:  Never got to it.
 
 
 
Monday
****************
Universal Entertainment, Orlando, 407 282-3140, 407 282-3141
8-11
Comments: OK, about the same as Semoram. Last time I was there, they
seem to have a bit better mix of music than just the "shuffle" beat
like many Florida rinks tend to lapse into.
 
Southland Roller Palace, Pinellas Park, 813 546 0018
9-12
Comments: So-So, mostly shuffle beat type stuff.
 
Hot Wheels, Miami, 305 595-3200
8-11:30
Comments: Did not go to this session, but the adult Thursday session
was the best I seen on my vacation.
 
Galaxy Skateway Hollywood, Davie, 305 435-3300, 432-5144
8-11
Comments: Went to this several years ago.
It was Ok -- mostly shuffle beat type stuff.
 
Wednesday
****************
USA, Tampa 813 876-6544, 813 876-5826 
9-12
Comments: This session claims to be a Hot 100 Club mix -- I will try
to check this one out next time.
 
Thursday
****************
 
Hot Wheels, Miami, 305 595-3200
8-11:30
Comments: Best session I went to on this trip. Center is walled off from
the rest of the floor (but open for skating).
 
Galaxy Skateway Hollywood, Davie, 305 435-3300, 432-5144
8-11
Comments: See Monday night,
 
Galaxy Skateway, North Lauderdale, 305 721 0580
8-11
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Happy Days Skate & Putt, Davie, 305 452-2800
7-11
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Rainbow Roller Land, Largo, 813 585-5987, 813 586-6810
8-12?
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Roller Skating Center of Coral Springs, 305 755-0011
7:30-10:30
Comments: Never got to it.
 
Skate City, Daytona Beach, 904 788-4401
??? (8-10:30)
Comments: Several years ago they had an adult session on Thursday. The
manager said that they may be starting this session again in the summer.
 
-----
 
From: merlyn@techbook.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Hillsboro (Oregon) Roller Rink destroys music format
 
In article <D2150039.3k82mg@udwarf.tymnet.com> carl%udwarf@tymix.tymnet.com 
writMes:
|Since I haven't been into a rink for a few months, I can't comment on the
|music they might be playing... but our local rink has a sunday night adult
|skate and the stuff they were playing is pretty much 70s/80s stuff with a
|few oldies and current pop (top-40) thrown in.
 
that'd be cool, probably.  I keep thinking that "adult" music is stuff
from the 60's.  I forget I'm getting older. :-)
 
|Hmmm... I spend a week in Oregon a year or two ago when BiiN was trying to 
|make a product offering and I tried one or two of the rinks there... and I
|forget, but I don't think I made it to the Hillsboro rink because they had
|a "soul" night the night I was ready to go... but, I thought I went down
|to the Oaks (in the Oaks Amusement Park) and they had this enormous pipe
|organ... I can't imagine them playing things you can't dance to... although
|maybe pipe organ music may be a bit much if that is ALL they play.  I don't
|remember, but it wasn't that crowded and I was able to practice my spins
|even though they didn't allow me to practice any jumps.
|
|Are they still open?  Is that a viable rink?  :-)
 
BiiN!  Hey, I was a contractor there during its entire existance (well,
at least until they killed all the contractors in one fell swoop).
 
Hillsboro still has a "soul" session on Wednesday nights.  I haven't
gone back to see if they've ruined that one too.
 
Oaks is still there.  It'd better be.  It's the oldest and largest rink
in the Pacific Northwest (since 1920-something, I think).  They still
play the old pipe organ (the pipes hang over the center of the rink) on
some sessions, but Friday and Saturday nights are top-40 from records
(and maybe CDs).  I attend a "private" session there on Sunday nights which
is mostly rap-ified soul (and some good stuff too :-).  It's run by a private
group (the "Rose City Rhythm Rollers") and it's for members only, so we
can pretty much play what we want (well, OK, what the DJ wants :-).
 
But one nearly-good session a week isn't enough to keep me tuned up or
in shape.  Sigh.  Down from 10 hours a week to 2.2 hours.  Not good.
 
-----
 
From: "Robert E. Brown" <robert.brown@quorum.com>
Subject: Re:  Roll-Land
 
I go to sessions that play "artistic" skating dance music.  In my neck of the 
woods:
 
        Riverdale Rollerworld in Warwick, RI    401-821-2595
        Sunday and Tuesday, 7:30 to 10
 
        Silver City Skateland, Taunton, MA      508-824-4866
        Sunday 7:30 to 10
 
        Highland Heights Rink in Tauton, MA     508-824-9363
        Sunday 7:30 to 9:30, Thursday 7 to 9
 
The last of these is a small rink in a suburban neighborhood run by an elderly
couple who built the rink 40 years ago.  The floor is great and the rink is
almost always empty . . . because of . . .
 
Silver City, probably the best competitive rink near me.  I've not been to
their dance session.
 
Riverdale has a nice, but always dirty, floor -- the boards on the ends of
the rink are curved.  The rink has a small competitive club.  It has 
popular rock and roll sessions, populated with local kids.  I practice here,
since it's closest.
 
One of the earliest rinks in the country is also in RI -- since the Newport
rich of old seemed to enjoy rolling around in their mansions after dinner.
I believe this rink is near the Providence airport, but haven't found it
yet.
 
   From: "Robert E. Brown" <robert.brown@quorum.com>
   Subject: Re:  Roll-Land
 
 One of the earliest rinks in the country is also in RI -- since the Newport
 rich of old seemed to enjoy rolling around in their mansions after dinner.
 I believe this rink is near the Providence airport, but haven't found it
 yet.
 
 
We found this rink (Hillsboro Country Club) during a non-session period. They ha
ve
sessions during the week starting at 7pm. It is located on US1 (2100
Post RD) in Warwick RI. Phone number is 401 737-9828
-----
 
From: "Robert E. Brown" <robert.brown@quorum.com>
Subject: friendly rinks
 
Of the rinks I mentioned in my note, Riverdale and Highland Heights are
the friendliest -- especially Riverdale.  In your skating travels have
you run across any rinks where people do the flea hop.  I suspect that
flea hopping was only done in a few rinks around Cleveland, and may be
extinct now.
 
Flea hopping seems to have originated at a rink in Chagrin Falls, where the
steps were:  LF (hop) RB (hop).  That is, alternating left forward and
right backward steps (mohawk turn transitions) with hops on each foot.
Each step is one beat of the music, with the hops giving a double-time
effect.  I only saw this once or twice.
 
At my rink in Mayfield, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland), people omitted the hops
and skated each step to two beats of boogie music.  The forward step with
a deep inside edge, the backward with a deep outside.  This basic step was
used as a starting point for lots of tricks, occasionally including small
jumps, but mostly just tricky footwork.
 
Ahh, fond memories of Bobby Freeman on organ playing "Smoke on the Water"
(maybe the actual title is somwthing like Purple Haze) in front of a wall
of disco lights, while hundreds flea hopped at top speed . . . .
 
-----
 
From: nigel@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov
Subject: Re: Good indoor roller skating in the DC area?
 
In article <ABOULANG.92Jul21110552@kariba.bbn.com> aboulang@bbn.com (Albert 
Boulanger) writes:
 
   In my forays of rinks in the DC area, I have not found a really good
   rink -- ideally for an area like Washington DC there would be a rink(s)
   that has adult sessions with a "dance club" feel. Does any exist in the
   DC/Baltimore area?
 
Uh...I haven't noticed any...I usually go to Columbia if I'm in an
indoor mood.  They have an Adult night there that is more fun for me.
Plus they rent rollerblades ;-).
 
-----
 
To: kanarick@media-lab.media.mit.edu
Subject: skating indoors boston
 
   I noticed today you posted something in rec.skate about finding a good
   place to skate with good music.  Do you know of any places in the Bostong
   that have good music *and* would allow me to bring my in-lines?  I
   looked up Roller Skating in the Yellow Pages and found two places,
   but I don't know anything about either of them.  Might you?
 
Nothing compared to NYC. The best is probably the Sunday night session
at Roller Kindgdom in Tyngsboro MA (7:30-11). They allow in-lines that
don't tear up the rink floor as far as I know. Besides Sunday night,
there is a Wednesday night session at Roller Kindgdom in *Hudson* MA
from 7:30-11 and Monday night session at the rink in Beverly (I forget
its name). There are two Thursday night sessions: Tyngsboro MA
(7:30-11) {I go to this} and Roller World in Saugus from 8:30-11. Call
the rinks up.
 
 
Phone numbers:
 
 Tyngsboro 508 649-2440(rec)/649-3439
 Hudson    508 652-3440
 Saugus    617 231-1111
 Beverly   508 927-4242
 
 
There are rinks south of Boston (in Tauton for example) that I have
never been to although I have saved some email on them.

-----
 
grr@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Subject: Roller Rinks (Philadelphia Area)

This is a list I've been maintaining of local skate rinks that
I've visited.  I'd appreciate any corrections or comments...

notes:

1) matinee/kid-oriented sessions generally omitted, some of the
	schedules are fairly complete, others list just the sessions
	I've attended.

2) rink sizes are hard to judge, since it's easy to be fooled by
	the size/style of the building vs. the floor and the crowd.
	Floors bounded by wall seem much smaller than those with a
	runway. Large is something like 170'x70' - dance skaters
	notice very quickly as the floor narrows.

3) shapes are approximate - oval has some kind of rounded ends
	octagonal has angle clipped corners and rectangular doesn't.

4) Were multiple locations are given, the first is usually what the
	rink claims, the others are better known approximations.

====

Caln/Thorndale/Downingtown PA

Caln Roller Rink
~1 mile west of Downingtown on business Rt. 30
Behind "Carpet Warehouse" on north side of road.
215-269-6229

Mon	10:30 AM - 12:30 PM	Adult Escape - Lessons
Tues	7:15  PM - 8:00 PM	Adult Beginner/Dance Lessons
	8:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Adult-18 Skate (slower) - Live Organ Music
Wed	6:30 PM - 9:30 PM	Discount Nite
Thur	7:00 PM - 8:00 PM	Advanced Dance Lessons
	8:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Adult-18 Skate (faster) - Live Organ Music
Fri	7:30 PM - 11:00 PM	Open - Top 40 DJ Joe Lamont
Sat	7:30 PM - 11:00 PM	Open - Top 40 DJ Wobbly

Hardwood - 170'x72' Rectanglar
In-lines prohibited...

This is a full size wood rink, kept in good condition.  Peripheral
areas are wood 3/4's of the way around the rink, with a couple wide
areas suitable for practice when not crowded.

Adult skates have traditional skating music by live organist Nick
Viscuso, who is good, but the skate/music schedule seems rigid  with
only occasional seasonal variations.  Open skates are generally crowded
with school age kids, little adult presence.

I'm kind of predjudiced, since this is my home rink, but it seems to be
one of the better managed and has relatively extended hours.  The staff
is fairly strict, but tend to relax once they recognize you.  No firm
rules against backwards skating, but jumps are discouraged.

The biggest problem is the lack of any Adult session other than the
traditional organ music stuff...

====

Villanova/Bryn Mawr/Radnor PA

Villanova Skate Arena (was Radnor Rolls)
Rt. 30 and 320 just west of Villanova
Behind small shopping center northwest corner of 320 intersection
215-527-9293(tape)/527-9294(info)

Monday	9:30 AM - 12:00 N	Adult Artistic & Dance
Tues	7:00 PM - 7:30 PM	Adult Classes
Tues	7:00 PM - 10:00 PM	Adult-18 Skate  - Music Unknown
Fri	4:30 PM - 6:30 PM	After School Skate
	7:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Open - Top 40 DJ
Sat	7:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Open - Top 40 DJ

In-lines allowed and for rent, popular with the kids.
Hardwood - ? - rough surface

This is a mid-size rink, which suffers from a warped surface.  The
worst spots are inside of the normal traffic oval, but still make for
an interesting feel as you pass over the bumps and gullies.  The
peripheral area has a grungy carpet though there is a tiny, dirty
(20'x20'?) practice floor behind the DJ booth.

I've only been here during an open skates, so there were the usual
problems with erratic kids and beginners mixing with faster teens and
a few adults.  Enforcement seemed lax and there were some kids doing
flips and live body/barrel jumps.

Good points are that the staff is new and friendly, and there are
informal (all ages) roller hockey games after the Saturday session.

====

Warrington PA (between Doylestown & Horsham)

Warrington Roller Skating Rink
Rt. 611 at Warrington
East side of 611

Hardwood - ? - Rectangular

I stopped in here during off hours, seems to be a long, narrow rink,
quaint but in pretty nice condition.  Weekend hours only.

====

Lansdale/Hatfield PA

Spin-A-Round Skating Center
Rt 309 north of County Line Rd (Line Lexington)
on hillside overlooking east side Rt. 309

Wed	6:45 PM - 7:30 PM	Beginner Dance Lessons
	7:30 PM - 10:00 PM	Organ Music
Fri	7:30 PM - 10:00 PM	Top 40
Sat	7:30 PM - 10:00 PM	Top 40
	9:30 PM	- 12:00 PM	Top 40
Sun	6:00 PM - 8:30 PM	Family Night - Organ Music

In-line skates prohibited.
Hardwood - ? - Octagonal?

This is a full size rink, but was need of resurfacing.  A wood gangway
surounds the entire rink and snack bar, but isn't really wide enough
for practice.

I've only been here on an open Saturday night when it was snowing, so I
don't know much about the usual crowds.  There aren't any adult nights,
so there's generally a mix of all ages, though the Wednesday night
session feautures "organ music" and may be more elderly.  The Saturday
split session does result the the departure of many of the youngest
skaters at the end of the early session.

Apparently they have a rule limiting backwards skating "inside the red
line" or during backwards skates, but this wasn't being enforced when I
was there due to the small crowd.
	
====

Aston/Brookhaven PA

CN Skate Palace
Concord Rd. and Rt. 452
just south of the Concord Rd./Rt 452 5-points intersection
215-494-4442(tape)/494-4443

Wed	6:30 PM - 9:00 PM	Family Night
Fri	7:30 PM - 10:30 PM	Open Session
Sat	7:30 PM - 10:30 PM	Rock & Roll

In-line skates permitted.
Hardwood - 160'x60' rectangular

This is a fairly small/narrow rink in a converted suburban movie
theater.  Perhaps as compensation, the floor is in excellent condition
and they even have a wheel-cleaner widget to scrub off the usual
suburban wheel crud.

An intersting feature is that since the floor is built up over a
sloping theatre floor, it's fully suspended making for a nice feel.
Unfortunatly, this doesn't quite make up for the relatively narrow
~60 foot width and kid-goo too often covering the otherwise well
maintained surface.

I've skated here mostly during "family" sessions, which are the usual
zoo-like affairs.  There was a Tuesday night adult-rock session for a
while, but attendance wasn't consistant and it was canceled.

This rink is largely kid/family community oriented, but my skating
instructor calls it  home and they have an atistic/dance club with
exclusive use for some time on Sunday morning and Wednesday night.

====

Northeast Philadelphia PA

Palace Roller Skating Center
11750 Roosevelt Blvd.
East Side, near N. Phila Aiport
215-698-8000

(incomplete!)
Tue	10:00AM - 12:30	Adult-18 Morning Session
Wed	6:30 - 9:00	Family
	9:30 - 11:00	Adult-18
Thu	? - ?
Friday	7:30 - 11:00	10 & up - Rock
Sat	7:30 - 11:00	10 & up - Rock
	11:30 - 1:30PM	Adult-18

In-line skates permitted.
Hardwood - ~180'x80' Oval

This is a borderline urban rink - not downtown, but in the Northeast
section of the city.  A fairly nice looking facility, but with more
security guards than skate guards.  Also a nice skate shop, but it
closed early and I didn't get a chance to look closely.

I visited on a Friday night and the crowd was almost exclusively
teenaged.  In addition to being fairly crowded and limited to forward
skating some shuffle/couples, some of the younger kids were doing
stupid things.  I got taken down from behind once and pushed several
times - I don't mind crowds, but I prefer rolling freely to dodging
and braking.

There are some late-evening Adult sessions that are supposed to
be pretty good, so I'll have to drop in and see how they compare.

====

Shillington/Reading PA

Skateaway?
Rt 222, South of Shillington

Sun	7:30 PM - 10:30 PM	Adult-Night (Live Organ)

Inlines permitted?
Hardwood - - Rectangular?

This is a medium sized rink near Reading.  I've only been up there once
during the Sunday night Adult session, which was OK, with a live
organist playing fairly up-beat stuff.

===

Harrisburg PA

Hagy's Fountainbleau

Sun	8:00 PM - 11:00 PM (?)	Adult-Night (Live Organ)

Hardwood - ? - Oval

This is another one I've only been to once, for their Annual "corn-roast",
since it's well over an hour from work, but I plan to get up there again
one of these days.

This is an older rink in a building that has a wonderful high ceiling.
In some ways it's kind of quaint, but it's full sized and the floor is
in good condition.  Another interesting feature is a "step-up" seating
area all along one side of the rink.

The owner is apparently one of the founders of the RSROA and there is an
interesting museum aisle with pictures of old rinks, skaters and old
skates, wooden wheels and other curios.

The Sunday night session features live organ music, with at least two
different organists on different weeks.

====

Newark/Christiana/Ogletown  DE

Christiana Skating Center (was Spinning Wheels)
South side Rt 273 just past I-95 intersection
366-0426

Tue	6:30 PM - 9:00 PM	Family Skate
Thu	9:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Adult-16 Skate
Fri	7:00 PM - 9:30 PM
	9:00 PM - 11:30 PM
Sat	8:00 PM - 11:30 PM
Sun	8:00 PM - 11:00 PM	Adult-16 Skate - Top 40 DJ

In-lines allowed, but speed skates are the most popular.
Hardwood - ? - Oval

This is a mid-size rink, in good condition, but with a carpeted
peripheral area.

The ~16 Age limit for the "Adult" skates makes for a largely teen-aged
crowd with an assortement older folk. Still, it is enough to make this
perhaps one of the better top-40/dance sessions in the area.

Skating is generally moderate, fast and faster, mixed with a enough
beginners to serve as sacrificial targets.  Rules relagate backwards
skating, spins and freestyle to the center of the rink, but enforcement
varies depending on the skate guard, whether the manager is watching an
whether it's a pet rink rat or whoever.

I go to the Sunday night session fairly often, it can be fun as long as
you're up for the pace, but many new skaters or drop-ins give up in
disgust before getting acclimated.

This is also on of the rinks where competitions are held, and has
yielded some winners, but apparently the club/lesson/competition
activity is quite separate from the public sesions.

====

Elsmere/Wilmington DE

Elsmere Skating Center
Rt. 2 Elsmere
Under the railroad overpass

Wed	8:00 PM - 10:30 PM	Organ Night
Fri	7:00 PM - 9:30 PM
	9:30 PM - 11:30 PM
Sat	8:00 PM - 12:00 PM	DJ G-Man
Sun	8:00 PM - 12:00 PM	Adult-18 Night - DJ G-Man

Hardwood - ? - Oval?

I've only stopped by here off hours, but this appears to be a nice full
size rink.  Has a bit of a reputation for being a "rough" place, but
this may be the suburban view of a rink serving both urban and
blue-collar neighborhoods.

====

Delanco/Cinaminson/Trenton NJ

Holiday Skating Center
Rt 130 at Creek Rd
Near Holiday Lake/Ice Cream Stand

Tues	8:00 - 11:00		Adult-16/Organ Night
Wed	6:30 - 9:30		DJ (Family?)
Fri	7:30 - 11:00		DJ
Sat	7:30 - 11:00		DJ
	11:00 - 2:00 (AM)	Rock Organ (once/month - call!)
Sun	7:30 - 10:30		Organ Night

Inlines permitted/for rent, but none seen on adult night.
Hardwood - 200'x90' - Oval w/wood surround practice area

This is perhaps the largest rink in the Area.  It's a bit longer and
much wider than usual and still has a large skatable seating area at
one end and wide seating/practice lane down one side.

The Tuesday session features live organ music and is fairly well attended
by a mix of all ages.  There are mid-session and after session artistic
dance skates.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...


From harbour%mervax.dnet@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com Fri Apr 23 08:37:14 1993

	These three rinks are in northern Virginia, all three within about a
half hour of Fairfax Virginia (which is about 10 minutes east of Dulles
Airport.)


******************************************************************************

Skate City -- Mathis Rd., Manassas Virginia. 	703-361-0425

	From Fairfax, take 28 south to Manassas. Take a right on Liberia
then left at the next traffic light on Mathis. The rink is the third
building on the left, behind a car dealership, and across the street
from a cinema.

	The floor is wood, and in fair condition, and medium to small. Public 
sessions are very crowded. Backwards skating was allowed during sessions. 
Roller Blades are also allowed.

	There are public sessions most nites from 7 to 10 and there are
some day time sessions, such as an adult skate on Thursday from 10 to noon.
As always, it's best to call before you go to be sure.

****************************************************************************

Skate City USA -- Sudley Rd. Manassas Virginia.		703-361-7465

	This rink is probably managed by the same folks who own Skate City,
because their session schedule sounds very similar. I didn't actually get
to skate here, so I don't have explicit directions, or first hand information
about the rink. However, skaters are Skate City seemed to think the floor at
Skate City USA was bigger than Skate City.

	Again, call for information.

****************************************************************************

Fronconia Roller Rink -- Alexandria Virginia	703-971-3334

	Take exit 3 off 495 (Franconia/Van Dorn exit.) Bear right at the
the traffic light to about the third set of lights which should be
Franconia Rd. Take a left on Franconia, and go about a half to three quarters
of a mile. You will see a Crown Gas station on the left. The rink is behind
the gas station.

	Sessions are nightly 7 to 10 pm, except where there is a private
party. I went in the middle of the week and the session not well attended,
(which was great for practice.) I was told by skaters there, however, that
the weekend sessions are very popular. I don't recall if they allow roller 
blades, but they do require toe stops or dance plugs, and will ask to see 
your skates when you pay your admission (I wasn't hasseled about my figure 
skates, though.)

	The floor is wood and is in pretty nice condition, medium to to small,
but about average size from what I've seen elsewhere around the country.

****************************************************************************




Hope you can use this!
Susan

================================================================================
List of contributors:
 
abbottad@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
aboulang@bbn.com (Albert Boulanger)
bill@franklin.com (bill)
carl@udwarf.tymnet.com (Carl Baltrunas & Cherie Marinelli 1.5)
Erica Nowicki <k080116@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
geo@shilah.Eng.Sun.COM (george atkins)
grr@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (George Robbins)
merlyn@techbook.com (Randal Schwartz)
nigel@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov
Mark L. Fussell using <rebecca@cco.caltech.edu>
Robert E. Brown <robert.brown@quorum.com>
Robert John Butera <rbutera@rice.edu>
Russell Turpin <turpin%cs.utexas.edu.uucp@BBN.COM>
sastls@mvs.sas.com, ASTLS@mvs.sas.com
Susan Harbour <harbour@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com>
Tamara Shaffer <SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>
 
=END OF PART 6=================================================================
 

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part7


REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 7:  WHERE TO SKATE (Outdoors) Section 1
 
 
              Compilation of Outdoor Skating Locations Section 1
              --------------------------------------------------
                          (last changed June 15, 1993)
 
Table of Contents
-----------------
  West Coast
    - Colorado
    - California
    - Idaho
    - Phoenix
  Midwest
    - Chicago
    - Minneapolis
    - Ohio
  South
    - Houston

                                    WEST COAST
 
Colorado
--------
 
From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Two primo skating trails in the Colorado Mountains

There are two primo trails in the Colorado mountains that I highly recommend:
the Breckenridge-Vail bike path and the Glenwood Canyon path.

Breck-Vail

This is a fairly old trail; it was even re-surfaced a year or two ago. It's an
asphalt trail that runs from Breckenridge, CO to Vail, CO -- somewhere around
25 miles in each direction.

The section from Breckenridge to Frisco is fairly mundane. The section from
Frisco to Copper Mountain climbs about 600 feet in 6 miles -- a fairly steep
grade. If you are experienced in braking, the descent on this trail is
absolutely fabulous. If you're an efficient climber, the climb is pretty fun,
too -- you'll be passing a lot of tourists using their Mountain Bikes in a
fairly inefficient manor.

The section from Frisco to the top of Vail Pass climbs about 1000 feet in 5
miles. Pretty steep stuff. It's a neat path -- winding switch-backs in a
"wilderness" area between the split-apart sections of I-70. There's a rest
stop at the top, so you don't have to lug lots of water with you.

The section from the top of Vail Pass to Vail drops about 2000 feet in 7
miles. This is pretty mondo steep. Some sections of the trail are just off the
EB side of I-70 and the air is filled with the smell of almost-melting truck
brakes. Not fun. Also, you *must* be a skilled braker to navigate this steep,
narrow trail. Dual brakes may be a necessity -- *I* wouldn't try it with just
one.  Also, I wore out 6 brakes the last time I did this, and *still* wasn't
in town.

If you're unclear if you qualify as a skilled braker, here's my test: how many
brakes have you worn out and replaced? If it's over a dozen, you'll probably
be OK on this trail. Less than 3 is a No Pass (literally!).

Glenwood Canyon

I haven't been on this trail, but it looked absolutely marvelous. This is a
10-mile or so stretch of canyon in the far upper Colorado River. 

For the past n years (5?), this section of I-70 has been upgraded from a
2-lane to a 4-lane highway. It is an absolutely breathtaking feat of
engineering!  The WB lanes of I-70 are suspended up on the canyon; the Hanging
Gardens tunnels are really neat. I drove through here last weekend; I had
quite a difficult time concentrating on my driving....

The path is between the EB lanes and the Colorado River. It sometimes winds in
and around the highway and appears to shoot over to the Lakes at the tunnels.
I don't have a good judgment of the grade; I'd guess it's 3-4% from Glenwood
Springs to the Lakes. Clearly, the trick would be to get a room at the Hot
Springs hotel in Glenwood Springs, skate upstream to the lakes, cruise back,
and soak in the Hot Springs pool the rest of the night.


Why am I telling you this? Especially since both of these trails are now
impassible? No good answer. Except, if you're planning a spring/summer
vacation now, you might want to put one or both of these gems on your travel
plans. If we want *more* trails like this, it would be incredibly valuable for
the local/state governments to get the idea that tourists are going out of
their way to visit these trails.

--phil


From: aites@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jim Aites)
Subject: Nomination for 'blade-capital'
 
I would like to take this time to submit my nomiation for "blade-capital" 
of the the world.  (what do ya' mean you didn't know we were voting?)
 
The city is Boulder, Colorado.
 
Last week-end I drove 50 miles (each way) to visit this famed area.  It is
as good as the rumors have indicated.  Every major road around town has a 
'greenway' containing a 6 foot wide contrete bikepath on BOTH sides of the 
road, and even the roads without 'greenways' still have the wide walkways.
 
The prettiest/best run in town is the Boulder Creek Bikepath.  This path 
starts (at the top) about 2 hundred yards up the mouth of the Boulder Creek 
Canyon, and windes for about 7 miles along the creek to the far east side of 
town.  It's all contrete, mostly shaded by trees, about 5 bridges over the 
creek allowing travel on both sides of the creek, and has at least 4 parks 
along the way.
 
I didn't take the time to check out all the intersecting paths which lead 
off to other parts of town. (next time!) I saw a blades hockey game in 
progress, about 5 beginers (practicing in near by parking lots), almost as 
many Bladers as bicyclists on the path itself, and even found some other 
folks who had commuted (from Denver) to check out the turf as I was doing. 
 
If any of you are ever in this part of the country, be SURE to bring your 
blades! 
 
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Re: where to rollerblade in denver, south denver

In article <C4zq6F.xz@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com 
(George Robbins) writes:
>Hmmm.  I was in Denver a year or so ago and was suprised by the lack of
>visible skating action.  The place is made for it - too big to walk, but
>flat enough for effortless skating or cycling.

True.

Cherry Creek -- from the dam to the South Platte River -- is a pretty neat
playground. The trail along the South Platte goes for many miles. Remember
the magic rule: go upstream first, so you won't run out of gas on
the return trip.

C-470 -- the 1/4 beltway -- has a bike path along about 80% of its distance.
Here, substitute "wind" for "stream" in the magic rule.

Check with Grand West Outfitters for info on hockey and more structured
activities. They're at Broadway and 6th -- right off of the Cherry Creek
Trail.

>My recollection is that there are several shops listed under skating
>equipment listed in the phone book.  One of them was adjacent to a park,
>(the one with the Zoo or Washington park, not sure), which might be the
>place for public skating.  Calling or visiting these shops would be a
>good source of info.

Wash Park is pretty busy and the trails are not the best. 

>Apparently there's more action in Boulder, but Phil could tell you
>about that...

Yeah. Boulder Creek trail is swell. Between 1st and 30th street is
really intermediate terrain, but there are a lot of beginners there.
Between 1st and fourmile canyon turnoff is an expert trail: quite
steep with no turnouts. From 30th to 60th (or so) is a very mellow,
very pretty trail. When you come back to the west, you can see the
entire Continental Divide.

There are a lot of other good trails in town.

Both Boulder and Denver have bike maps. The Boulder one shows road/path
grades (and direction). The Denver one doesn't, but there are a lot more
trails down there. REI sells the Denver map.

I'm going to try the moby long Denver viaduct sometime this summer....

--phil

 
California
----------
 
From: Jawara@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Ron Drake)
Re: Where to blade in South Bay Area?
 
The trail goes under the San Mateo Bridge all the way to the end of
Edgewater Boulevard in Foster City. As a matter of fact, the best part of the
trail is after the bridge. Makes eight miles, total. Traffic's not too bad 
except for the occasional knot of cud-chewers and those kids who bike out ahead 
of their parents and think nothing about turning right in front of you to see if
mom and dad are still visible. If you start and finish at Edgewater, you
can replenish your precious bodily fluids at Chevy's with a couple of cold
margaritas. From 101, take Hillsdale Blvd. or H'way 92 to Edgewater. Turn
right and follow Edgewater to its end. Park. The trail begins at the end
of the street to the right.
 
The best street skating I've found so far is through western Menlo Park
near the Stanford campus to downtown. There are a number of streets there
that have bike lanes and not much vehicular traffic. The streets are well-
kept so that debris and surprise bumps are at a minimum. The pavement
varies in quality from excellent to garbage. The area is bounded by
Sand Hill Road, Valparaiso Road, El Camino and Alameda de las Pulgas.
 
Those who go to Shoreline should be aware of the concert schedule. It's
always better to go when it's quiet. For those who want to get a real
workout, here's the prescription for doing 'laps' at Shoreline. At the
end of the stretch that parallels Moffett Field, there's that series of
double gates. Skate down the incline (WHOA!), out through the cul-de-sac
and make a right on Shoreline Boulevard.
 
 
From: bryguy@apple.com (bRYgUY K. Carter)
Subject: Re: Skating locations in the SF Bay Area?
 
Try the Los Gatos Creek Trail from Vassona Park all the way into
San Jose.
 
 
From: hirsch@northstar.asd.sgi.com (Diana Hirsch)
Subject: Bay Area Trails
 
I have two suggestions for skating trails in the Bay Area:
 
1. Sawyer Camp Trail - off 280 in San Mateo near 92.  Blader heaven on Sunday's,
lessons every other Sunday. The trail is about 6 miles one-way. The last mile is
very steep but fun coming down. However, they have radar out there and they will
give you a ticket for speeding, especially in the posted 5mph zones.
 
2. Campbell Par Course Trail - off Campbell Ave. near 17 and the Pruneyard. The
trail can be accessed in several places between Hamilton and Campbell Aves. This
trail is fun because it goes all the way through Vasona Park into Los Gatos. The
only caution is that there are several wood bridges to cross. (Stay on your back
wheels and use short horizontal strokes, it's good for the adrenalin.)
 
Have fun exploring and happy skating.
 
 
From: betsy@alf.sybase.com (Betsy Burton)
Subject: Re: Where's A Good Place to skate in the East Bay???
 
The park is a great social scene. It's a good place to meet up with other
skaters and play. However, there are some great places in the east bay for a
real work out. In addition to the places I can tell you about, there is a book
out from Karim Cycley that talks about some other places.
 
1) My personal favorite for a nice long run, is the back streets to Richmond.
There are a number of streets starting near Gilman and Albany. These streets go
through Albany and El Cerrito. In addition, Richmond Street goes out past the El
Norte Bart Station. This route has good small hills and allows for a good 
workout. 
 
2) The Nimitz trail takes off at the top of inspiration point and goes out about
4 miles. At the end of this path is a rather large hill, which after struggling
to the top, is great to fly down.
 
3) Tunnel road takes a bit of experience and some good breaking skills. I just
heard that someone biked up tunnel road the other day..so it  may be open after
the fire.
 
4) Berkeley Marina is good for a quickie. A full lap is 2.5 miles. The only
draw-back is that the view gets a little boring after a few laps.  My last and
most favorite is Bancroft Hill, next to the University. Late at night it is a
nice fast down hill.
 
---
 
From: walden@ready.eng.ready.com (Eugene Walden)
Subject: Re: Long blading adventures in the S.F. Bay Area...
 
Another good place to go is Sawyer Camp Trail. It's only 6 miles long, so I
guess it doesn't qualify as really long, but there and back, you get a good
quiet 12 miles. 
 
Take I-280 to Black Mtn Rd (just north of 92) and head west. Turn left at the
intersection and go another mile or so. It's on the right.
 
Follow the posted speed limits-- park rangers have radar and will give 
citations for violators.
 
---
 
From: jimy@hkn.Berkeley.EDU (Jim Young)
Subject: Re: Long blading adventures in the S.F. Bay Area...
 
You might want to try skating around the Berkeley hills.  I usually go
up Euclid or Spruce, skate across Grizzly Peak, and then down Tunnel road.
If you go early in the morning, you might see Eddy Matzger and Sandy 
Snakenberg there.
 
Also, I know many people from SF who skate across the Golden Gate into
Marin County.  They skate something called the "Paradise Loop."
 
On the peninsula, there are some nice, smooth trails at Crystal
Springs.  I know some guys who skate from Mountain View to SF, so I think
some of the roads that parallel 280 are fairly nice.
 
Finally, in the south bay, I have a friend who skates on the Los Gatos
bike trail (it runs parallel to highway 17).  It's sort of crowded with
joggers and runners, but it's better than skating in south bay traffic.
 
---
 
From: HQPYR1:kimon@orac.holonet.net (Kimon Papahadjopoulos)
Subject: Re: Bay area inline skating areas and paths?
Reply-To: HQPYR1:kimon@orac.holonet.net
 
EXPERTS ONLY!  NASTY HILL CLIMB, NASTY DESCENT.
 
Path or area location:  TUNNEL ROAD on the Berkeley/Oakland Border
Directions:
 
From Berkeley:  Take Ashby out of Berkeley, past the Clairmont Hotel and 
towards highway 13 and 24.  Turn left at the stoplight (As if going towards
highway 24, not 13).  When you get to the top of the hill, make a left
and Park.  
 
Orida side of 24:
I believe you take the Tunnel Road Exit.
 
                 ^
                 |
TheRoute...__  To 24
             \   |
Tunnel Rd --> |  |  
              |__|
              |  |
              |  |
   Hiller --> |  |
             /   |
            /    |
                 |
                 |
                 |
                 |
>From Berkeley ---S---- To 13 ->
 
>Parking information: On the the start of Tunnel itself
>Path length: ~6mi (I don't really know- cound be 7-8)
>Loop or non-loop: Loop: Up and Down.
>Average path width: Two lane street
>Minimum path width: Two lane street
>Average surface: Pretty good asphalt, some rough spots
>Worst surface: One very pitted rough spot for about 10 feet.
>Number of hills:  Up hill all the way
>Severity of steepest hill:  8 on a scale of 1-10
>Average steepness: 7 on a scale of 1-10
>Obstacles: One very pitted spot near the bottom, cars, occasional trucks
>Weekend pedestrian and bicycle traffic: Yes
>Weekday pedestrian and bicycle traffic: Yes
>Number of roads which cross the path: It is a road. It crosses several roads,
	but no stop signs or lights.
>Number of stairways on the path: None
>Distance markings: No
>Any other pertinent information:
 
FOR EXPERTS ONLY!  IF YOU CANNOT BRAKE WELL AT HIGH SPEEDS, DON'T TRY THIS
COURSE.  IF YOU ARE UNSURE, DRIVE IT FIRST .
 
The climb up is a great workout, and not too severe.  There are also great
views of San Francisco and Oakland.  Tunnel Road turns into Skyline about
half way up.
 
Watch for problems in the road going up so that you will be aware of them
when you come down.  Take it easy coming down the first time.  There are
several areas that require care!
 
There is a water fountain a little past the top (if you continue along
Skyline Blvd about 200 meters) at a ranger station.
 
This is in the burned area of Oakland, so there is construction going on
in places, some trucks coming up.
 
It takes between 15-30 min to get to the top, depending on ability.
 
There are other places you can explore when you get to the top, but Tunnel
is generally the most tame, and the safest bet to go back down.  Be careful
and have fun!
 
---
 
From apurmal@us.oracle.com (Tony Purmal)
Subject: Foster City Biking/Jogging/Skating path
 
* Path or area location
 
  Foster City, CA
 
* Directions
 
  Get to Foster City by crossing 101 on Hillsdale Blvd or Highway 92.
  The path circles the city next to the following streets: Beach Park
  Blvd between Compass and the San Mateo Bridge, East Third and J. Hart
  Clinton Drive from the bridge to and beyond Mariner's Island Blvd.
  It follows Belmont Slough and Marina Lagoon between Compass and
  Fashion Island Drive passing Townhouse, Condo and Apartment complexes
  bordering those waterways.
 
* Parking information
 
  Park along the streets mentioned above, or park at a park along the path.
 
* Path length
 
  About 10 miles
 
* Loop or non-loop
 
  Can be done as a loop if you go between the path endpoints.  This can
  be done by taking Mariner's Island Blvd and Fashion Island Blvd between
  East Third Ave and Marina slough.  One can also go along the wooden
  walkway (past Fashion Island Blvd) to Shoal Drive and through Mariner's
  Island Park to get to Mariner's Island Blvd to complete the loop.
 
* Average path width
 
  8 feet
 
* Minimum path width
 
  4 feet
 
* Average surface
 
  semi-smooth asphalt
 
* Worst surfaces
 
  Lots of raised cracks (linear and horizontal) along bay on south side
  of bridge.
  Pitted rough surface on north side of bridge where the path is close
  to the bay.
  Uneven pavement in places along Belmont Slough.
  Wooden walkway between Fashion Island and Shoal Drive (optional).
 
* Number of hills
 
  Five or so very small hills.
 
* Severity of steepest hill
 
  Very slight.
 
* Average steepness
 
  Very slight.
 
* Obstacles
 
  A wooden bridge along Marina Slough (very easy to handle)
 
* Weekend pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
  Unknown
 
* Weekday pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
  Light and well behaved.
 
* Number of roads which cross the path
 
  Between Fashion Island Blvd and Mariner's Island Blvd, none.  To
  complete the loop along Mariner's Island Blvd and Fashion Island
  Blvd there are four intersections and up to five side streets
  depending on which side of the street you're on.
 
* Number of stairways on the path
 
  None along the path, two if you take the optional connection along
  the wooden walkway and other roads to get to Mariner's Island Blvd
  to complete the loop.
 
* Distance markings
 
  Beginning 1/4 mile south of the San Mateo Bridge on the inside of the
  path there are markings every 1/4 mile in faded yellow/orange paint
  through until Highway 92.
 
* Any other pertinent information
 
  The path borders Belmont Slough where one can see various wetland
  wildlife.  There are also good views of the east bay along Beach
  Park Blvd, and of San Francisco north of the bridge.
 
  The wind gets pretty strong at times, especially in the afternoons,
  so be prepared.  I prefer to skate into the wind on the way out and
  with the wind on the way back.
 
---
 
From apurmal@us.oracle.com
 
* Path or area location
 
  Redwood Shores, CA (across 101 from Belmont, CA)
 
* Directions
 
  Take Ralston Ave. east across 101, turns into Marine World Parkway.
  Turn left onto Oracle Parkway at first light after 101 overpass.
 
* Parking information
 
  Park at the parking lot at the first left after getting onto Oracle
  Parkway, or continue around and park in the area across from the
  Oracle Fitness Center.
 
* Path length
 
  1 mile
 
* Loop or non-loop
 
  Loop
 
* Average path width
 
  7 feet
 
* Minimum path width
 
  4 feet
 
* Average surface
 
  Smooth asphalt and sidewalk
 
* Worst surface
 
 
* Number of hills
 
  Three short inclines.
 
* Severity of steepest hill
 
  Small angle
 
* Average steepness
 
  Slight
 
* Obstacles
 
  Occasional hoses when the maintanence people are working.
 
* Weekend pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
  Light
 
* Weekday pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
  Light
 
* Number of roads which cross the path
 
  The path crosses Oracle Parkway twice where it meets Marine World
  Parkway.  Cross from the path on Oracle Parkway to the sidewalk on
  Marine World Parkway.
 
* Number of stairways on the path
 
  None
 
* Distance markings
 
  None
 
* Any other pertinent information
 
  It gets very windy in Redwood Shores, especially in the afternoons.
  
  You can go from this path to the Foster City Bike and Walkway by taking
  a right onto Island Parkway at the end of the path closest to 101.
  Then follow the road over the bridge until it dead ends at Concourse
  Drive and take a right.  At the end of Concourse there is a path
  leading to the Foster City path.
 
  From the Oracle Fitness Center to the San Mateo Bridge on the Foster
  City Path is five miles.  (Take a right when you get to the Foster City
  path)
 
  From the Oracle Fitness Center to Hillsdale Blvd on the Foster City
  Path is three miles.  (Take a left when you get to the Foster City
  path)
 
---
 
From: mpeters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters)
 
An earlier post was asking for places to skate in the San Diego area.
Last November I enjoyed skating at Mission Bay on the walk along the beach
and at Lake Mirimar (sp?).  The lake has a loop going around the lake with
lots of turns (nice for crossovers) and its about 5mi. around.  Lots of
bikes and skaters.  Not many cars drive on this road because automobile
traffic is not allowed to travel the entire loop.  I believe there are signs
on I-15 just north og San Diego.  It is located right next to the city
of Scripps Ranch.  The lake is a good place for a workout, but Mission Bay
is nice for a leisurely skate.
 
From: tal@netcom.com (Tal Dayan)
Subject: Souh Bay Area, a skating place which I like.

I would like to share with you, south bay area skaters, a skating site
which i enjoy.

This is Cunnigham park in San Jose.  The park has a lake, and a trail
around it.  The Perimeter trail (a loop) is 1.9 mile long but if you use
the trail just neat the water, it a little bit shorter.  The park has
several parking lots which are virtually empty in this time of the year
(including weekends) which are good for figure skating.  The one I like
the  most is near the Marina (just below the Raging Water entrance)
which has new pavement and it slope make it ideal for slalom (you might
find the chalk marks I made this morning ;-> ).  You can feed the ducks
(millions of them), fish (or at least try to), or have Cock from the
vending machine near the entrance to Raging Water.  The parking costs
one $ but there is no body to pay for or a box to leave the money so I
consider it free (probably it is different at summer).

To get there, take 101 Tully exit east (one exit south to the point were
101 and 280 met) and go on Tully all the way until you will see the
entrance on the left side (just after the airport).

BTW, I am compiling a list of skating sits in the south bay area, if you
know of an interesting place, please let me know. I will post a follow
up.
 
Tal Dayan


From: dvolansk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (David Volansky)
Subject: Re: Where to blade in South Bay Area?

> at Stanford.  Anybody have any details on this (when, where, etc...).  I
> believe this is put on by the skate shop Nuevo Colors...

The group meets at the Main Quad at about 7:15pm.  The best place to locate
them is in the parking lot at the end of Palm/University Ave or on the stairs
near the lot - you can't miss them - the group usually numbers in the 30s to 40s
this time of year (more in summer, less in the rain - yes, they go in the rain).

The group is very informal and doesn't really have a starting time or leader.
As it's getting darker, they're leaving earlier and earlier.

The ride usually goes until about 9 or 9:30 and includes some favorite jumping
spots on campus and a ride in the close-by neighborhood.  Be prepared for some
hills - the smell of heal brake is really something at the end of some of these
runs.  The route is the same each week, so the darkness isn't too bad after a
few weeks.  In the beginning, just stay behind someone who seems to know the
route and be sure to listen for the "stay to the right", "stay to the left",
"watch out for the big ditch" messages.

Let me know if you show up.  Since the group is fairly young (high school and
college age) I don't think I especially fit in, but you can single me out by
my dark hair and a red beard.


From: kiwong@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kinsley Wong)
 
Where to Skate in San Luis Obispo (Central Coast California)
-Outdoor:  Santa Rosa Parks, Perfumo Canyon Road, Palm Street Parking Structure
-Indoor:  Flippo Harbor Skating Rink.
Local Club:  BladeRunners.
Contact Kinsley Wong : Kiwong@iris.calpoly.edu for more information.
 
Idaho
-----
From: ahill@boi.hp.com (Andy Hill)
Sender: news@boi.hp.com (News Server Project)

Just got back from a work/play boondoggle in Sun Valley, Idaho.  If
you ever have a chance to come through this area in the spring/summer/fall,
check out the Wood River & Sun Valley trails.

The Wood River trail is a very recent rails-to-trails conversion.  It's
21 miles long (42 round trip), extremely smooth, and not much climb.
It's a cross-country ski trail in the winter (there was still quite a bit
of snow on either side of the trail this week).

The Sun Valley trail is about a 20 mile loop around Dollar mountain.  Not
quite as smooth, and has some road intersections that are a bit gravelly.
Quite a bit more climb than the Wood River trail (with some screaming
downhill sections). Bring a spare brake!


Phoenix, AZ
-----------
 
From: kcreta@sedona.intel.com (Kenneth Creta)
Subject: Re: trail guides and the IISA clinic
Message-ID: <1992Jun23.231609.27059@ichips.intel.com>
 
Here in the Phoenix area, my favorite is Indian Bend Park in Scottsdale.  This
area is VERY popular with all levels of expertise around.  I hear that the 
paths around the Phoenix zoo is also good (I'll see this weekend).
 
 
MIDWEST
 
Chicago
-------
 
From: jkaplenk@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Joe Kaplenk)
 
>2)  I go to Northwestern in Evanston, and they must have passed that 
>right-of-way ordinance after I left.  A friend of mine and I went to a
>meeting of the Evanston Human Services Committee and was told that there
>have been no police accident reports involving in-line skaters and there
>was probably no cause for alarm or restrictive legislation.  One alderman
>was bound and determined to get something, though, and I guess he did after
>all.  The ordinance applies specifically to the downtown business area
>where there is a lot of traffic, pedestrian, bicycle and in-line in nature.
 
Glad to hear that it wasn't worse. Some people get upset just by seeing 
something that the think might cause a problem, even if no problem exists. Glad 
to hear also that there have been no incidents. A little more fuel to add 
to our arguments against restrictions.
 
>3)  Are there any groups/individuals in the Chicago area who are looking to
>congregate to skate?  I'm a middle-skilled skater (i.e. can stop well, do
>some backwards skating and am proficient in a forwards direction) and would
>like to progress to that next level.  Joe posted something about the Odeum
>offering lessons, but I'm wondering if there's any kind of team action or
>group that gets together.
 
There is a club that has been listed in the Windy City Sports magazine. (I'm not 
sure of the name). Rainbo carries it, it's free. It would be neat to form an 
inline competition club in Chicago. USAC is getting more and more open to 
inlines, inlines are fully accepted there for speed(in separate events) and 
roller  hockey  though not yet in the artistic area because of some technical 
issues on inline design.  I'm not sure what IISA is doing about clubs.
 
I'm especially interested in artistic inlines. Rainbo rink doesn't have a USAC 
club yet, so maybe they could be approached. I don't have time to help form one 
because  of my committments to adult ice skating currently, but I would 
certainly join and support an inline club of this nature.   Rainbo rink is 
small, and the floor  is a little warped in spots, but it is very convenient and 
has the best seating of any roller rink in the Chicago area.
 
The director at the Odeum is going to give me a call soon when he has his class 
schedule figured out, so I can have more information shortly. They might also be 
approached about a club. Though he was not very interested in anything involved 
in USAC. I guess because he has so much else going on in getting started and 
with the WHA tryouts coming up.
 
There is also just outdoors  skating, but I think it would be really good to 
have a year round club and to have  a rink to back a club up in terms of getting 
members.
 
 
Minneapolis
-----------
If you want a REALLY great place to rollerblade, Minneapolis opens up the 
Metrodome to rollerbladers ONLY (I'm not sure about during the summer, but they 
do this all winter).  It's about a half-mile (I think) circle of the smoothest 
concrete you've ever been on. There are two separate levels, one for serious 
rollerbladers and one for "the family."  A "must-blade" if you're ever in the 
area.
 

Ohio
----
From DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU (Brett Kottmann)

- Dayton (OH)

	The best places to skate in the Dayton area are on the bike paths. 
Bike, joggers, and skaters (bladers? :) coexist as long as the cardinal rule is
followed: bike right: skate/run/walk left.

	The River Corridor is approximately 13 miles long, including street
connectors (not many).  Parts are in dire need of paving, but the run from W.
Carrollton to the Carillon Tower is fairly decent, and free of pedestrians for
the most part.  There is a steel bridge that is best walked across near W.
Carrollton.  Whitman's Bike Shop (in W. Carrollton) is a good place to meet,
get repairs, etc.

	The Xenia-Yellow Springs bike path is 6 miles long, gently sloping up
to the north.  It's an excellent way to build up your endurance by skating hard
north, then working on turns, spins, etc. back south.  Fairly straight.  Note:
there have been problems with exhabitionists on this path.  Do not skate alone.
	Young's Dairy is near the Yellow Springs terminus, and is a great way
to put on the pounds you just worked off :).

	Planned additions to these routes include the Beavercreek connector
(connecting the River Corridor and Xenia-Yellow Springs) and the completion of
the Xenia-Yellow Springs path south to Morrow, Ohio.  The N-S path would then
run from Cincinnati to Xenia.  The River Corridor will eventually be extended
south to Hamilton, near Cincinnati.  The bike/skate/run paths would then form a
giant H across south-west Ohio, encompassing more than a hundred miles of paved
paths!  You can help speed up the process by contributing to your local/state
"Rails to Trails" organizations.

 
SOUTH
-----

Houston

The flattest city on earth.  If you want hills, youre only choice is
to sneak into the parking decks downtown at night,  This is rather 
common - just skate upward until the dweeb (they all are) security 
cop asks you to leave.  Skate out.

Street skating is allowed in Houston.  Be reasonable.  I've heard from
reliable sources that street skating is now officially legal, but
can't be positive.  

Downtown.  VERY popular with skaters.  In the spring through november,
Thursday nights are "the" skating nights downtown after the "Party on
the Plaza" (weekely free outdoor concerts downtown).  There's also
a few skaters on weekend afternoons.  Some of the big oil and bank
building security types don't like skaters on their marble, even if it
is a public sidewalk on a city easement.

The "skater-bar" in Houston is the Brewery Tap, on Franklin (one of
the northernmost eastwest streets downtown).  Its also the major
hangout for the Urban Animals, Houston's famous "skater-gang".  
The Animals organize skates on a semiregular basis - just join them on
a Thursday night at the Tap - they're a friendly bunch.  In the
past, they also met at the old concention center (across from Jones
Plaza) on Wednesdays and Sundays for hockey.

Stop by the Montrose Skate Shop (on Stanford between W. Gray and
Clay).  The owner is a longtime experienced skater who knows a lot
about Houston and the national skate scene.  Don't let the appearance
of the house/shop scare you :)  If there's any official skating event
or something sponsored by the Animals going on (like the Labor Day
pub crawl) he'll adverstise it in his shop.

Memorial park is VERY popular on weekends.  Its got a smooth 1+ mile 
loop.  On a given weekend day, there will be 50+ skaters, maybe more.
Racers and beginners alike skate there.  Lots of bike racers too, so
give them room.  On weekdays the "picnic loop" (where the
skater/bikers go) is closed to automobiles, making it even better.

Rice University has a smooth loop (~1 mile) around the campus.
Several shops use Rice for lessons, and the loop is popular with
beginners.  Experienced skaters often stop by for a few laps, and
grab a beer at Valhalla (grad student pub, open every day but
Saturday 5pm-2am with 50 cent draught beers and 2.50 pitchers).

Houston has LOTS of bike trails.  Some are in terrible shape, others
are pretty good.  I reccomend the Braeswood Bayou trail ONLY WEST
OF Buffalo Speedway.  East of there it really start falling into 
severe disrepair.  Its not obvious where you can park to get access
to the trail, which is over 10 miles long.  Some of the neighborhoods
along South Brasewood have roads along the Bayou, park at one.
The trail along Buffalo Bayou is OK, but during rainy season (late
fall and winter) the off-road portions through the park get washed
over with sand.  Not fun.

On some weekend afternoons, the city of Houston closes Allen Parkway
for about a one mile stretch along the park along Buffalo Bayou.  
Nice stretch of pavement just for bikers, skaters, baby carriages,
etc.


From: fontenot@ravl.rice.edu (Dwayne Jacques Fontenot)
Subject: places to inline skate in houston

These are the standard answers and my thoughts on them:

Rice University
---------------

To hear people talk and to read articles in the local newspapers one would
think that Rice University is some great place to skate. Well, I know a thing
or two about the Rice campus, and I simply do not understand this.
Rice possible places to skate:

The "inner loop": Sure, this is a smooth asphalt loop, but it is a *road*.
It is for *cars*. The speed limit is 15mph, but some drivers regularly
travel at up to 60mph. Traffic is not as heavy as say, main street, but
it is heavy enough. I guess if you don't mind the cars, and don't get
easily bored with the loop, and like to skate into Valhalla for a beer,
then this is for you, but it's not for me.

The sidewalks: No way. Rice sidewalks are "pebbled paths". That is,
really smooth, bumpy pebbles held in place by concrete. This stuff is
so slippery, that it is difficult to ride a bike on it (though technically
one is not allowed to bike on it, so one probably cannot skate on it
either).

The Rice Stadium lot: Please wait while I stop laughing. This lot is like
an exploded mine field. One must be very careful when driving a *car*
over this surface. There are gigantic holes everywhere, and the surface is
not smooth at all.

The Rice Bike Track: Not an option. This is a bike track. It is for
*bicycles*. It is *not* for *skaters*. *skaters* should not skate on it.
Bikers use the bike track to train on. It is extremely difficult to
ride around the track at training speeds while there are skaters on it.
Experts will tell you the worst accidents happen when there is the greatest
disparity in speed of the vehicles. That is the case with bikes and skates.
Imagine what a biker thinks when he comes up behind a skater who is
stroking his legs out to the left and right. It is only a matter of time
(IMHO) before skating becomes illegal on the bike track, if it is not
already.

The Rice stadium: This is a slight possibility. There are several concrete
ramps which could be fun, but they are quite steep. If one could get in,
it might be a fun place to skate, but once again, it is probably not
allowed.

Downtown
--------

hmmmmm. We asked one person where to skate downtown, and they said,
"anywhere is fine". Yeah, rite. Anywhere is fine as long as it is on
the sidewalks. And the sidewalks don't excite me. There are several
*cool* plazas which are the property of large corporations.
However, the security guards will not let you skate there. I guess they
don't want to be sued, and I don't blame them.

So, where do people skate downtown which is not on the streets (lots of
cars)?

Memorial Park
-------------

I have no information. Anyone out there know good places to skate in
Memorial Park?

Hermann Park
------------

This is the best place I have found so far, but that is only relatively.
There are *lots* of people with baby carriages. Most of the time people
on the sidewalks will hear you coming and move aside, but usually the
sidewalks are filled with clumps of people every 20 feet. At least there
are no cars. My current fun thing to do is to skate around the manmade
lake, including over the wooden humpback bridge  :-) but, inlines are
so "new" there that everybody stares. Admittedly, things are better on
weekdays, but most people work on weekdays :-(

So, where do people skate in Houston? Specifically.

thank you for your time,

Dwayne Fontenot


rec.skate Houston skating FAQ (by Rob Butera, rbutera@rice.edu).

Last updated: 04/21/1993 (some big changes from last version)

Downtown and vincinity  Downtown is fun.  A lot.  Popular with skaters on
			Thursday nights when Party-on-the-Plaza is in
			season.  Also popular on Friday and Saturday
			nights and Saturday afternoons.  Downtown has
			some of the only "hills" (i.e. slopes) in Houston,
			at the north end near Buffalo Bayou.  Try your
			luck at Parking Decks ("Jesus Saves" is the most
			popular).  The Brewery Tap on Franklin is probably
			the official "skater-bar" of Houston where many
			skaters hang out and meet up, especially on Thursday
			and Saturday nights.  Power Tools, a dance club
			two doors down, charges no cover to skaters.

			Some security guards don't like you skating on the
			nice sidewalks outside their buildings.  Just say
			"public easement" and they'll go away :)

			The nearby Heights neighborhood has some excuses
			for hills (roads like White Oak and Studemont, as
			well as overpasses over I-10).

			The Legendary Urban Animals regularly host 
			variations on "roller-skating pub crawls" 
			that usually start at the Brewery Tap.  They 
			publicize them at "skater-friendly" bars, as well 
			as the Montrose Skate Shop (1406 Stanford, 528-6102).

Allen Parkway		On an "experiemntal" basis, the city of Houston
			is sometimes closing one half of Allen Parkway
			from 10 am to 4 pm on Saturdays and/or Sundays.
			Roughly a mile stretch of pavement is closed
			off the auto traffic for bikers, skaters,
			high speed baby carriages, etc.

Hills?			In general, Houston is flat as can possibly be
			(just live here when it rains!).  Any and all
			hints of hills in Houston will be anywhere
			along the stretch of Buffalo Bayou, especially
			near downtown.  Otherwise, go find some overpasses :)

Memorial Park
Picnic Loop		Very popular with skaters of all skill levels.
			Many skaters and bikers on weekends.  Closed to
			car traffic on weekdays.  The loop is 1+ miles
			long with a good variety of curves and paths to
			take (much less boring than the Rice loop).

Hermann Park		I used to tell people it stinks and not to waste
			your time.  However, while skating home last week,
			I discovered that they have put new wide (6 feet)
			cement paths throughout the park that are great for
			skating, especially beginners.  Still not as long
			or scenic as Memorial, but good for beginners or
			a lazy skate on a sunny afternoon.

Braeswood bike trail	Park on Lookout Court, which is off of S. Braeswood
			just west of Buffalo Speedway.  You can take the bike
			trail from Buffalo Speedway west to Chimney Rock
			(about 3.5 miles).  The trail actually goes west
			as far as Fondren and east as far as U of H, but
			the pavement quality is much worse west of Chimney
			Rock or east of Buffalo Speedway.  Take note: if
			want to head west past Chimney Rock, the trail 
			looks like it ends.  It doesn't - you have to
			cross the bridge over the Bayou, where the trail
			continues on the other side of the road.

Buffalo Bayou Trail	Good for mountain bikes.  Bad for skaters.  Would
			be the best outdoor skating trail in Houston (lots
			of slight hills and curves), but whenever it rains
			significant portions of the trail get washed over
			with sand.

Rice Loop		Rice University has a 1+ mile loop around campus.
			Its very popular with skaters, espcially on 
			Saturdays and late weekday afternoons.  Well paved
			as well.  Some experienced skaters come here at night
			to do 10 or so laps, then head over to Valhalla,
			the pub run by grad students (4pm-2am Sunday-Friday,
			50 cent draught Lonestar).

Neighborhoods
near Rice
			There's a lot of newly paved roads running east-west
			in West University.  Obey the speed limit and all
			traffic laws (I'm not joking, either).  North of
			Rice, there are some newly paved roads (like Hazard)
			but some (like Mandell) really stink.

Woodlands		If you actually have a reason to go way out there,
			the trails are pretty fun, and there are lots of
			them.  Beware of sharp curves with bikers coming
			around them from the other direction ...


The Montrose Skate Shop is the best local "clearing house" for races,
fun runs/bikes that allow skates, and Urban Animal sponsored events  Stop by
(its an experience for the uninitiated) or call then at 528-6102.  They're
at 1406 Stanford, which is a few blocks east and parallel to Montrose
between Clay and West Gray.


=END OF PART 7=================================================================

Posted-By: auto-faq 1.24
Archive-name: rec-skate-faq/part8

REC.SKATE FAQ - PART 8:  WHERE TO SKATE (Outdoors) Section 2
 
 
              Compilation of Outdoor Skating Locations Section 2
              --------------------------------------------------
                          (last changed June 15, 1993)




Table of Contents
-----------------
  East Coast
    - New York
    - Boston
    - Cambridge
    - New Jersey
    - Washington D.C.
    - Baltimore
    - Atlanta
  Overseas
    - Australia
    - Hawaii

                              EAST COAST


Tennessee
--------- 
From: mldickens@bbn.com (Michael L. Dickens)
Subject: Re: Where to skate in Oak Ridge/Knoxville TN?

I'm not sure if inlines are allowed, but there was an indoor skating rink
on the east side of town (Oak Ridge), on the Turnpike.

OR does have some nice BIG parking lots to cruise around; mainly the newly
renovated Downtown (Indoor) Mall.  I'd probably stick to the Wal-Mart side
because the pavement is better (and newer).  There's always the Kroger's,
K-Mart, and Family Rec parking lots.

I'm from OR, but I've never tried skaing around town.  I think it is
do-able, as biking was quite possibly in town.  I wouldn't recommend
blading out to the 'Labs, because the road is WAY too narrow (as of last
year, at least.  Maybe they finally got their act together & did something
about it! - it had no shoulder, and had room for 2 cars and a bike). 
During the summer, there are LOTS of runners and bikers.  And also LOTS of
traffic.

I'm also of the opinion that blading might not pass over too well with the
natives (of OR at least).  Skate boards were (and I think still are) pretty
rad.

I'll have more to say over the summer, as I'll probably be visiting home
over the 4th of July.  And I'll definitely take my Blades for some downtown
action!


New York
--------

NYC (from David Madeo)

Depending on how hard core you are, you can skate year round in NYC.
Windproof insulated garments help. The prime season is March though
October.  

The most popular location in NYC is Central Park on the 6 mile loop.
Cars are barred for several hours each day during the week and the
entire weekend.  While you are sharing the road with bikes, joggers,
and walkers, there's usually plenty or room since there are three
lanes.  When the autos are allowed back in, there's a sidewalk for
walkers, and a lane for bikes/skates.  It does get a bit crowded then.

The bottom loop goes counter-clockwise from 59th and Broadway around
taking the 72'nd crossover past Tavern on the Green and back to 59th.
This is relatively tame mild rolling hills.  If you go straight at the
72`nd turnoff, you go past the Met, around a long turning downhill and
along the top of the park.  Then you're a winding uphill.  There's a
long downhill leading back to the other side of the 72'nd crossover.
While lots of people skate here, this is the domain of the speed
skaters.

Going counter-clockwise around the big loop is the most common
direction.  The downhills all have long runoffs without a lot of
turns.  If you need more excitement, try clockwise especially in the
northwest corner downhills.

Just south of the 72'nd crossover on the west side right outside the
Tavern on the Green is the cone lane.  The dots are painted on the
ground, but most times, the cones are out.  There's usually a line of
people running the course and a whole gaggle of tourists/skaters/bikes
watching. There's a short course that's usually not being used.

Lastly, there's skater's way.  It's a road that was blocked off and
turned into some volleyball courts and a skating area.  This is *the*
place to congregate.  There's a path connecting the cones area to
skater's way.  The bottom of skaters way connects to the 72`nd
crossover.  Typically there are three types of things going on.  Some
of the skaters dance to the music of their headphones and/or the sound
system someone always sets up.  Then there's the oval where people
throw their backpacks in the middle and skate around.  Further down,
they alternate between hockey, jumping trashcans (discouraged by the
way), and teaching skating classes.  You'll find a lot of non-inline
skaters here.

Broadway and Fifth avenue (especially at night) all are used by
skaters fairly extensively.  I'd suggest going on the city streets
only when you have to.

I've heard good things about Prospect park in Brooklyn.  It's supposed
to be similiar to Central Park, but not as crowded.

Finally, there's a trail on Long Island a lot of skaters use.  It's a
five mile trail along the Wantagh parkway from Cedar Shore park in
Wantagh, to Jones Beach.  The cement path goes from Long Island over
several smaller islands and bridges to Jones Island fronting the
Atlantic Ocean.  It's flat and there isn't much in between the two
ends.  Bikes and joggers also use the trail.  It's much easier to park
at Cedar Shore than Jones Beach during the summer.


From: danny@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (daniel.moran)
Subject: Re: Where to skate in NYC?

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request.

        BROOKLYN:  The loop around Prospect Park, The Promenade in Brooklyn
                   Heights, the bike path along the Narrows from Bay Parkway
                   to the 69th street pier and along Shore Road in Bay Ridge.

        MANHATTAN: Central Park and East River Park.  Also, the Roxy has
                   skating once a week.

I also contated the New York Road Skaters Association (NYRSA) and they are
having a trip to the NY Botanical Gardens on 2/14 at 11 AM and to the Cloisters
on 2/20 at noon.


Boston
------
 
The trails on the Charles (at least when I left in 1989) could not meet this
policy. There are plenty of places where it would be physically impossible for
one bicycle to pass another unless there was no opposing traffic. Portions of
the trail up near the Allston exit of the Mass Pike immediately come to mind.
 
I lived in Boston for 10 years. Fortunately, I was able to schedule my work to
avoid the crunch time on the trails--in to work after 10AM, leave work after
6PM. The most fun was skating at night along the Charles (yes, O'Leary, with
light and helmet). This may have been dangerous, but I rarely, if ever, saw any
sinister types along the park at that hour.
 
There are some pretty decent places to skate in Boston other than the Charles.
The linear park along the new Orange Line wasn't bad. I did a lot of my
practicing on the linear park from Davis to Alewife on the Red Line. At that
time, the nearly-empty Alewife parking lot, with its gentle ramps and not-so-
gentle spirals, was an excellent place to learn hills. 
 
 
Cambridge
---------
 
By the Charles River, just get to harvard.
Allston/cambridge exit off Mass Pike.
 
Memorial drive: nice road... 8 hours open ...  11am to 7pm..
skated on sunday... only open on sundays ...
open for "recreational vehicles" only...
pretty neat... had two sets of cones set up...
plus about 2 or 3 miles or 4 lane road to skate...
(bikes, skates, foot, unicycles, skatebvoards..)
asphalt...few cracks..no real hills ... just by the cones.. mostly flat .. by 
river ... nice....straight away...no loop....not really crowded... too long to 
be crowded...short wait for slalom ..  one rental van ...
 
 
New Jersey
----------
 
From: smo9130@tesla.njit.edu
 
My husband and I recently started skating outdoors.  We are looking for good
places to skate.  Any suggestions??  The best place we have found so far is
Nomahegan Park in Cranford, NJ.  Please let me know of any other good places. 
Thanks.
 
-----
 
From: jogulin@camelot.fia.dmg.ml.com (Joseph Ogulin)
Subject: Directions/description for Saddle River County Park
 
By popular request, here we go:
 
To the Fair Lawn area of Saddle River County Park (SRCP)... this is where the 
slalom course is:
 
	GSP North to exit 160.  Turn left at the light at the end of the  ramp.
Follow this road over Route 4.  It becomes Paramus Rd. here.  Follow Paramus Rd.
to the first light, turn left.  Pass the signs that say things like "Welcome to
Fair Lawn" and "Say No to Drugs."  On your right, after passing these signs, you
will find a small road which has signs (small ones) that say "Bike Route" and
"Parking for Bike Path and Tennis Courts."  Turn right here, and park in the
lot.
 
To the Dunkerhook (Paramus) area of SRCP:
 
	Follow the above directions, except go straight at the first light.  Pass
the cemetery on your right.  You'll see a sign on your left that says
"Dunkerhook Area, Saddle River County Park."  Turn left there and follow any
other signs.
 
To the Ridgewood area of SRCP:
 
	GSP North to exit 163.  Follow Route 17 North to the Ridgewood Ave. exit.
Head toward Ridgewood (you'll loop back over the highway). After you pass
Paramus Rd., look on your right.  When you see the duck pond (and signs
mentioning that it's the Ridgewood Wild Duck Pond of SRCP), turn right into the
area.
 
I can't recall how to get to the Glen Rock area.  Sorry.
 
To Fair Lawn and Dunkerhook from the north:
 
	If you're coming from the north on GSP South, use exit 163 (Route 17).
Exit at Century Rd. and head toward Paramus/Fair Lawn/Glen Rock (or whatever it
says).  You will not cross over Route 17.  Follow Century Rd. to Paramus Rd.
There will be a cemetery on your right (this is the intersection mentioned in
the Fair Lawn and Dunkerhook).  To get to Fair Lawn, go straight.  To get to
Dunkerhook, turn right.  Follow the above directions.
 
To Ridgewood from the north:
 
	Exit the GSP at the Ridgewood/Oradell exit (I may be wrong, but I believe
it is 165) and head toward Ridgewood.  You are now on Ridgewood Ave.  Just
follow Ridgewood Ave. as above after you cross Route 17.
 
 
Trail descriptions:
 
	There are approximately 6-7 miles of trails there.  Most of them are 
quite
smooth, with a few rough spots along the way.  They're about 5' wide, and
traffic is mostly walkers, joggers, bladers, and cyclists of various ages from
child to senior citizen.  Adult cyclists and bladers will generally follow
courtesies and warn people in front of them when they are coming up behind you.  
The whole series of trails winds along side of a brook.  Bugs are rampant along
parts of the trails during summer months in the evenings.  There are a few
hills, but most of them are short, or not too steep.  There are a few parking
lots along the way where many newbie bladers can be seen tripping, stumbling, or
moving forward when they have their balance.  There are no street lights along
the trails, as they all pass through wooded areas.  The slalom course, for those
interested, is in the Fair Lawn area by the tennis courts.  If there is nobody
there and you have your own cones (we tend to use cups because they're cheaper),
you'll find red dots painted on the ground.  The dots are 5' apart (measured
MANY times).  If someone is there, you won't be discouraged from trying.  In
fact if you just stand there and watch, you're very likely to be asked to try
the cones.  Just watch out for the geese and ducks in any of the parking lots
around duck ponds (Ridgewood and Glen Rock), unless you like cleaning your
bearings and wheels.
 
Hope to see some of you out there!
 
Joe
 
---
 
From commpost!opus!camelot!jogulin@uu3.psi.com
 
Well, I know of 2 parks in my area where you can go skating...
	Saddle River County Park in Fair Lawn/Paramus/Glen Rock/Ridgewood
	Brookdale Park           in Bloomfield
 
I much prefer Saddle River County Park because it has a 5+ mile trail (one way!)
which is great if you're looking for long skating runs.  Most of the people
there are friendly and follow general courtesies when passing, especially when
there's a large group (this is cyclists, skaters, and runners alike!).  There is
also an area where we do slaloming through cones.  People in the group I usually
meet there have painted dots on the ground for the cones.  They're 5' apart
(yeah, we know that competitions use 6' as the distance).  Any time anyone has
cones set up, people are welcome to "try their luck."  We'll never tell anyone
that they can't try it.  In fact, if you stand there and watch for a long time
and you're wearing rollerblades, someone's going to ask you to try it.
 
Brookdale Park is ok, but I've found that many of the cyclists there are a bunch
of assholes (mostly it's the cycling club members).  They might give you 3
inches clearance when they pass you while you're avoiding debris on the side of
the road.  Next time I go there, I'm going to bring a hockey stick with me (even
though I don't play hockey) and swing it back and forth as I go.  If the
cyclists bother me, *WHACK*... >:-)  Other than that, it's got a 1 mile loop
with a rather nasty hill.  The paths going through the park other than the main
road (which has a car speed limit of 30 MPH, which of course nobody follows) are
not that great and could use some repaving.
 
How to get to the parks:
SRCP:
	The Fair Lawn area is accessed from Century Rd.  Use Route 17 and 
exit at Century Rd.  Head toward Glen Rock/Fair Lawn.  The access road 
(Dunkerhook Rd) is a small road between Paramus Rd. and Saddle River Rd.
	The Dunkerhook area (Paramus) is accessed from Paramus Rd.  The 
access road (Dunkerhook Rd.) has a sign by it and is north of Century Rd.
	The Ridgewood area is on Ridgewood Ave.  Use Route 17 and exit at
Ridgewood Ave.  Head toward Ridgewood.
	I can't exactly remember how to get to the Glen Rock area, but Saddle
River Rd. comes to mind.
 
BP:
	There are entries on Grove St., Watchung Ave., and Bellvue Ave., all in
Bloomfield.  Take Route 3 to Broad St., head toward Bloomfield.
 
Other things:
	In SRCP, if it is nice, there are always some skaters there after 1pm on
weekends, and a varied subset of them on weeknights.
 
Contact me if you want to come up and skate with us on a weekend.
 
(h) 201-473-7606
(w) 212-449-1398 (direct to me)
 
If you call me at home, my father and I have the same first name.
 
Joe
 
---
 
From: kamran@pizzabox.dialogic.com (Kamran Vaziri)
 
There's a great place to skate up around the Madison, NJ area.  It's the closed
(unfinished portion) of route 24.  It's paved and very smooooooooth.  Plenty of
room too.  I'm not sure how to get to give you directions cause I don't know all
the street names around there but I'll get a friend of mine to post directions
to the place.
 
---
 
From: HQPYR1:walden@ready.eng.ready.com
 
Path or area location: 
 
   Sawyer Camp Trail
 
Directions
 
Take I-280 to the Black Mtn / Hayne Rd exit-- near Half Moon Bay. Head  west
after you exit, until you reach the first stop sign. There is a sign that points
left to Sawyer Camp Trail. Turn left. It is about 1-2 miles down after you turn.
 
Parking information
 
   Park on the side of the road about 1-2 miles down. You'll see the entrance.
 
Path length
 
   6 miles in one direction.
 
Loop or non-loop
 
   Non-loop. 
 
Average path width
 
   Two lanes; each about sidewalk width.
 
Minimum path width
 
   Same throughout course.
 
Average surface
 
   Fairly smooth; no potholes; some cracks filled with black goop.
 
Worst surface
 
Some areas are cracked with the goop filling. The goop can be kind of slippery, 
even when dry, so skate very gingerly on this stuff.
 
When there has been rain, only attempt the first half of the trail; the second 
half is shady, so it dries slower. The pavement is very hard to skate on when 
wet. 
 
Number of hills
 
   Several small hills, one huge hill on the last mile of the course. 
 
Severity of steepest hill
 
If you are not *very* good at speed control, *do not skate the last mile*. If 
you are good at speed control, make sure to keep your speed down. The hill is 
windy, so you risk running into peds and/or bikes if you fly too fast.
 
Average steepness
 
   Don't know what the grade is, but the big hill is pretty darn steep.
 
Obstacles
 
   Pedestrians, bikes, skaters. 
 
Weekend pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
Saturday and Sunday afternoons see pretty heavy traffic. Most of the traffic, 
though, keeps to the first mile or two of the trail. So, after you get past 
that, the number of other path users drops significantly.
 
Weekday pedestrian and bicycle traffic
 
   Never gone during the week-- don't know. 
 
Number of roads which cross the path
 
   None. 
 
Number of stairways on the path
 
   None. 
 
Distance markings
 
   Every half mile. 
 
Any other pertinent information
 
There are usually two park rangers who patrol the path. Thus, it is  fairly 
safe. They also have radar. The first and last half mile half posted speed 
limits of 5 MPH. The rest has a speed limit of 15 MPH. They do ticket violators, 
so you're wise to obey the speed limit.
 
   Park is open dawn to dusk. 
 
   - Eugene Walden (walden@gate.ready.com)
 
---

Philadephia
----------- 

From: mckay@VFL.Paramax.COM (Donald P McKay)
Subject: Outdoor Skating: Philadelphia Area


I've skated at two places west of Philadelphia I recommend to anyone.  If you
happen to want to skate at either of these locations, give me a 'ping', I'm
looking for rollerblading companions.  Also, if you use these or other places
in the Philadelphia area, I'm interested in feedback and other places to skate.



Philadelphia - Valley Forge Bike Trail
======================================

The Philadelphia - Valley Forge Bike Trail is a (mostly) marked bicycle route
from the Art Museum in Philadelphia to Valley Forge National Park.  Some of the
bike route runs along an old rail bed and has been paved.

There are two paved sections I've skated.  One is at the Valley Forge end of
the trail and the other is about mid-way.

The Valley Forge section runs from a little used section of the national park
located on the north side of the Schuykill River (exit off of Rte 422 at the
Trooper Rd exit; the park is to the left).  The section from Valley Forge park
to Norristown is approximately 4 miles, paved, flat and level.  The only
bothersome part is that you share the trail with bicyclists, walkers and
joggers.  This part of the trail is decently wide and recently paved in 1992.

The Conshohoken section runs from the Spring Mill SEPTA station in Conshohoken
for 3 miles east toward Philedelphia.  Except for the water treatment plant
you have to skate by, this is an enjoyable area of the Schuykill River area.

Ridley Creek State Park
=======================

Located approximately 15 miles west of Philadelphia.  WRNING -- THIS IS HILLY
AND YOU MUST BE ABLE TO BRAKE AND OTHERWISE CONTROL YOURSELF ON ROLLING
HILLS, 1 MILE CLIMBS AND STEEP DESCENTS.  SKATING HERE IS A GOOD WORKOUT.

In the state park, there is a paved circular path ostensibly for biking, bladingand walking.  Total distance is a little over 4 miles for one lap.  There is a
1 mile section along Ridley Creek which is rolling, no steep grades up or down.
The trail (no matter which way you happen to go) ascends from the creek bed
to the main part of the park which is on the top of some hills.  I would guess
a few hundred feet elevation change although I've never checked a topo map.
The steepest grade is approximately .4 miles (up or down depending).  The trail
is about 1 mile along the creek, 1 mile of gradual (compared to the other)
grade, 1.6 miles rolling over the main part of the park, and the .4 mile
steep grade -- there are a few level parts of the run to help slow you down, but
none at the bottom where it rejoins the creek.

There are a few residences in the park proper so there can be an occaisional
motor vehicle.

The fastest I've ever been on roller blades was going down the .4 mile grade.


Washington D.C.
---------------
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
 
In article <1992Jul02.203944.13805@eng.umd.edu> naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takas
hima) writes:
>
>Yes                            NO!
>Bike paths (contrete)          chunky old asphalt paths (maybe ;')

>I know this sounds like a good place, but I'm not so sure.
>For those in the D.C. area, I have skated on Rock Creek Park which is real
>nice path for joggers and slow bicyclist, but I'm not so sure if it's suited fo
r
>Bladers.  The path is narrow, damp in many places, and ocassionally very steep
>which makes it very difficult for speed control, which in turn leads to bail ou
t or
>wipe out.
>
 
Most parts of Rock Creek Park's bike path are OK to skate, except for
one real steep place that even bike riders have trouble with.
 
Since the path goes through the woods, keep in mind that wet leaves on
the pavement are very slippery to skate over.
 
It's also fun to leave the bike path, and skate about the nice
neighbor streets adjacent to it.
 
Baltimore
--------- 
From: hall@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Marty Hall)
Subject: Re: Skating in Baltimore

Belas@mbimail.umd.edu (Bob Belas) writes:
>
>	I was wondering if there is anyone from the Baltimore-Washington 
>area who might be able to provide some advice on where blade skaters skate 
>in the area.  

A quick summary of the few places I know, slanted toward the Baltimore side:

(A) Loch Raven Reservoir. A 1.5 mile or so stretch of smooth pavement on the
east side is closed to traffic weekends from 10AM to 5PM. Go up Dulaney Valley
Rd. along west and north sides of reservoir. Stay along the reservoir (ie
bear right) when the main road bears left at the restaurant. The next road
is where skating starts. Moderately crowded with walkers, skaters, and
bicyclers on nice days, esp after lunch. But shaded and cool.

(B) Baltimore Street Skater's Club. They meet 1st and 3rd Thursday's of
the month in the Light Rail parking lot on Deereco Rd. This runs parallel
to I83 between I83 and York Rd, halfway between Timonium and Padonia
Rds. They meet 7:30-9:30 with clinics (from raw beginners to moderately
advanced) going from 8:00-9:00. They recommend "joining" for about
20 bucks, but it is not required. Joining also gets you a T-shirt. They
also have hockey some other night. Call Hal Ashman at Baltimore Boardsailing
(666-WIND) for more info. 60+ people on a typical night. If you can
crossover backwards, do a few jumps, and do basic slaloms around cones
(backwards, 1-foot, crossing legs forwards), then you are already as
good as all but their best instructors, but can still mess around with
the better skaters. The more advanced groups generally take off into
the surrounding industrial parks.

Cancelled if there is a home Orioles game that night.

(C) Patapsco State Park. Just S of I195 off of Rt 1, near the UMBC campus.
It costs to get in, but skaters can park in the residential area outside
the park (go past the entrance up the hill), and skate in for free. It is 
about 1 mile into the main park, then there is a 2 mile stretch of river 
to skate along, ending in a hanging bridge  over the river. One side of the 
river is a road (no cars allowed most of the way), the other is a bike path.

(D) Camden Yards stadium. Huge parking lots and smooth sidewalks south
of stadium and around it. Obviously avoid game days. Guards will not let
you skate between the warehouses (inside the large gates) but will
let you skate elsewhere. On a weekday or early AM weekend, you can also
skate over to the Inner Harbor for a nice cruise.

(E) Baltimore Annapolis Trail. Nice smooth bike trail running from
Glen Burnie to Annapolis. I've never ridden it all the way into Annapolis,
and suspect that to ride into downtown Annapolis would be hard, since
I *think* you would have to cross one major bridge after the trail ends. 
Anybody know?

These are the better places that I personally have skated. Any other
suggestions? If you are also interested in indoor skating, Albert Boulanger
can no doubt suggest options down in your area.


Atlanta
-------
 
From: gn@terminus.gatech.edu (toM o. genesE)
Subject: Re: Pipes/parks
 
Well, I'm not quite sure what your looking for in a place to skate,
but if you are ever in Atlanta (well, it is on the East coast after
all) be sure to go to Piedmont Park.  The park itself is home to quite
a few skaters, and no one minds their presence.  Directly across the
street from the park is Skate Escape, the rec/speed skate shop
mentioned in the rec.skate FAQ.
 
Every Monday evening, there is an introductory skate through the
midtown area, starting at a shopping center near the park.  Even
though the trip is labeled as introductory, when the skaters (80+)
gather in the parking lot, you can meet advanced skaters and pick up
some tips, see some tricks, etc.  If you are into speedskating, Skate
Escape has a distance skate every Wednesday night.
 
There is also a local skate club, the Atlanta Peachtree Road Rollers.
These are the people who put on the Monday night skate, as well as
provide introductory skate lessons.
 
I can get more info on the club and these events if there is some
interest.
 

From rbutera@owlnet.rice.edu 

Atlanta
-------

GREAT skating city lots of hills and really scenic.  Piedmont Park
is really popular with beginners and pros alike.  Go to the entrance
near Piedmont and 12th street.  There's a skate shop on that corner
(Skate Escape).  They can tell you whatever you want about other
skating events in the city, regular weekly skates with the Peachtree
Rollers, etc.

Cops don't seem to mind skaters as long as you stay out of everyone's
way (i.e. use common sense).  

The Georgia Tech Campus is another great place, especially for
freestyle types.  Lots of stairs (the ones by the student center
are ideal for stair-riding) and ramps, great hills, and a few
parking decks to boot.  

 
ABROAD
 
Australia
---------
 
From: klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers)
Subject: Mountain Roads (was: Law Enforcement and Skating...)
 
My favorite skate is Royal Street in Park City, UT. It's a road that goes about 
half to two-thirds of the way up Deer Valley Ski Resort.  Lots of turns and 
*LOTS* of new pavement. Its probably about 500 meters (~1600 ft.) vertical and 
an absolute blast. There is little traffic and the police are very mellow about 
the whole thing (the town does depend on tourism you know). You can either bomb 
down it risking the tarmac(sp?) tickle or get thousands of turns (literally). 
Its really great in the summer since the temperature is rarely over 78 degrees F 
or so. Also, in the winter, a bus runs up to the top on a regular schedule and 
doesn't cost a dime. I kind of like the grunt up. It is kind of strange though 
watching a blader skate by a "Watch for Ice" hazard sign..

---
 
From: msp@posmac.UUCP (Mark Purcell)
Subject: Canberra ACT AUSTRALIA
 
HI I just thought I would share with all what I think is the best location in 
Australia for blading.
 
Yes I am refering to Canberra Australia.  The network of bike paths is quite 
extensive, one can go from one end of the city to the other on bike paths.  The 
paths are all >1.5m and made from hot mix, which makes them fast and ideal for 
pole work training for X-C.  As Canberra is only two hours from the snow fields 
a large population ofve, one can go from one end of the city to the other on bike paths.  The 
paths are all >1.5m and made from hot mix, which makes them fast and ideal for 
pole work training for X-C.  As Canberra is only two hours from the snow fields 
a large population ofkm loop, all in all I would estimate 
that there would be about 300-400km of trails in Canberra.  IDEAL!!!
 
There is nothing like blading around the lake just as the sun is coming up over 
the mountains, with the smallest amout of mist over the lake, and only one or 
two joggers/cyclists to worry about.
 
There are some problems though, before most road crossings there is a section of 
about 1.5 - 2 m of concrete bumps, which play like hell on the legs. It is 
possible to jump these but not the easiest.
 
So if anyone is thinking of going to Canberra make sure you pack in your blades 
or you will be sorry when you get here.  See you out there.
 
 
 
Hawaii
-------
 
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Subject: Re: skating in Hawaii?
 
In the Honolulu area, the terrain in town is pretty flat, but you can get into 
some serious hill-climbing instantly if you want to head inland.  Great view 
though, if you work your way up the hill right behind Honolulu.
 
The roads in town are good, but it is a pretty dense urban area, more like 
western business districts than NYC though.  Expect to deal with traffic and try 
to avoid getting stuck playing tag with the frequent city buses - it's hard work 
to get past and stay ahead, miserable to stay behind or play leapfrog.
 
In the outlying areas, you have a bit of a problem.  The roads are generally 
good, but there is usually only one road between any two points, so traffic can 
get heavy.
 
Also, since the general geography is a volcanic mountain, with kind of flat 
shoreline skirt, you will find that everytime you circumferentially cross one of 
the many radial river/streambed valleys, you go down a steep slope, over a 
bridge and back up. This is especially true on the smaller roads, major ones may
have a bit more invested in grading and bridges.
 
Also, be prepared for hot and sunny weather.  When skating you may spend more 
time in the sun than the usually carefully rationed time on the beach vs. indoor 
shopping and clubs.  It is very easy to get dehydrated or severly sunburned.  
Make sure you have light clothing that gives full body, arm and leg coverage and 
a wind-proof hat/sunshade of some sort.
 
On a more serious note, a parter isn't a bad idea, especially if you intend to 
travel independently outside the major tourist traps. Hawaii isn't exactly 
paradise when it comes to crime and delinquency. This has come up a number of 
times on rec.bicycling with respect to bicycle touring, and it's not clear if 
there is a real problem or just a few overworked tales.
 
================================================================================
List of contributors:
 
aites@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jim Aites)
betsy@alf.sybase.com (Betsy Burton)
bryguy@apple.com (bRYgUY K. Carter)
DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU (Brett Kottmann)
dmadeo@is.morgan.com (David Madeo)
fontenot@ravl.rice.edu (Dwayne Jacques Fontenot)
georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
gn@terminus.gatech.edu (toM o. genesE)
grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
hall@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Marty Hall)
hirsch@northstar.asd.sgi.com (Diana Hirsch)
HQPYR1:kimon@orac.holonet.net (Kimon Papahadjopoulos)
HQPYR1:walden@ready.eng.ready.com
jimy@hkn.Berkeley.EDU (Jim Young)
jkaplenk@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Joe Kaplenk)
jogulin@camelot.fia.dmg.ml.com (Joseph Ogulin)
kamran@pizzabox.dialogic.com (Kamran Vaziri)
kcreta@sedona.intel.com (Kenneth Creta)
klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers)
mldickens@bbn.com (Michael L. Dickens)
mpeters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters)
msp@posmac.UUCP (Mark Purcell)
pae@netwise.com (Phil Earnhardt)
rbutera@owlnet.rice.edu (Rob Butera)
smo9130@tesla.njit.edu
walden@ready.eng.ready.com (Eugene Walden)
 
=END OF PART 8=================================================================