🚀 go-pugleaf

s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:

>I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
>lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 

You just posted so you could say that. Didn't you? Hmmmm?!

>I was once told that I should partition my hard drive to have Linux &
>Dos/Windowz existed concurrently. If I'm gonna buy a plug & play Linux
>on cdrom, what's the size of partition ?

Replace Dos/Windowz with OS/2 and you are laughing. Not particularly
original tho'...

>What if I wanna install the whole Linux onto HD, what's the size of
>partition then ?

Depends how big you partitioned it to be. ;) Seriously, the goobers that be
recommend anywhere from 100 meg to 400 meg depending on how much of the
distribution you want and whether you plan to have things like newsspools
taking up space.

--
- Adam Frey                          Private: adam@eden.apana.org.au        -
- Melbourne, Australia            University: s932562@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au -
---------- And if it wasn't for the bullet in my breast pocket... -----------

Adam Frey (s932562@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU) said:

> Depends how big you partitioned it to be. ;) Seriously, the goobers that be
> recommend anywhere from 100 meg to 400 meg depending on how much of the
> distribution you want and whether you plan to have things like newsspools
> taking up space.

If you intend to put a newsspool on the disk then format it with at least
1 i-node per 3K of data rather than the default of 1 i-node per 4K data.
People have been running out of i-nodes with 100's of megs free on the disk.

As to partition size, make it as big as you can afford. Disk space is always
useful on a Unix system and you can NEVER have too much.
-- 
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s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:

>I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
>lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 

>I was once told that I should partition my hard drive to have Linux &
>Dos/Windowz existed concurrently. If I'm gonna buy a plug & play Linux
>on cdrom, what's the size of partition ?

>What if I wanna install the whole Linux onto HD, what's the size of
>partition then ?

>Any suggestion on which Linux I should buy ? I'd prefer those with good
>documentation & lots of Xwindows programs.

The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.

You can use X11R6 with NetBSD, and now that NetBSD is using shared libs,
you can fit it in around 200MB with room to move (NetBSD is a much more
complete distribution than Linux and actually works, besides being far
superior in many aspects).

NOTE: If you chose to use double-space for DOS (to compress your HD and
save space) then you will more than likely be unable to access your DOS
partitions from Unix, whereas you otherwise might.

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s913631@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Darren James Reed) writes:
>s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:
>>I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
>>lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 
>>I was once told that I should partition my hard drive to have Linux &
>>What if I wanna install the whole Linux onto HD, what's the size of
>>Any suggestion on which Linux I should buy ? I'd prefer those with good
>>documentation & lots of Xwindows programs.
>The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.
>You can use X11R6 with NetBSD, and now that NetBSD is using shared libs,
>you can fit it in around 200MB with room to move (NetBSD is a much more
>complete distribution than Linux and actually works, besides being far
>superior in many aspects).

Actually what you're saying about Linux is incorrect; really
it depends on which distribution of Linux you get. The two
major distributions of Linux (Slackware & SLS - available
via anon ftp on monu1.cc.monash.edu.au - these are mirrors) work 
fine (and the Slackware is nicely arranged for floppies too and has
nice installation/deinstalltion software).
Also Linux isn't subject to the legal restrictions that NetBSD is
(and it has had shared libraries for quite some time), you could
also consider FreeBSD.
I'm running Linux with X in about 100 Megs (with some megs to spare)
no problems. It is doubtful you'd be able to do this with NetBSD.
Of course if you want to do some serious networking then NetBSD
if probably the choice for you; but Linux has good cacheing
for a single user box sitting on your desk at home (with only
a loopback for networking).

Linux also has more support and help for less "expert" users.
While NetBSD may be more of a "true" Unix (especially BSD Unix);
Linux is aiming to be Posix complaint and I've had no problem
compiling and running both BSD and Sys V software.

I suggest with your system a good 180 Meg partition will give you room
to move (ie. download lots of junk) and a 20 Megs swap partition with
your 16 Megs of memory would be very nice. With Linux you can
also run DOSEmu	(dos emulator) and Wine (Window's emulator).
Depends on how much you want to use DOS really; after installing a
pre-emptive multi-tasking system with a decent compiler etc
you find you only use DOS to play games anyway.

Geoff


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geoff@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Geoff Wong) writes:
>s913631@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Darren James Reed) writes:
>>s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:
>>>I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
>>>lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 

Get a better mon for your card, TrueColor under 1024x768 is OK.
As for CD-ROM drive, get a dual speed (eg. 562-B).

>>The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.
>>X11R6... shared libs... complete... actually works... superior

>Actually what you're saying about Linux is incorrect; really ...
>While NetBSD may be more of a "true" Unix (especially BSD Unix);

Consider these: 1) local gurus run it, 2) you can get it easily

>compiling and running both BSD and Sys V software.

Have you ever forgotten to swap the args when changing bcopy to memcpy? ;)

>I suggest with your system a good 180 Meg partition will give you room
>to move (ie. download lots of junk) and a 20 Megs swap partition with
>your 16 Megs of memory would be very nice. With Linux you can

I'm using 210Mb part, 16Mb RAM with 30Mb swap (shared with Windoze).
Works fine, though I do want to get more disk space... :)

>also run DOSEmu (dos emulator) and Wine (Window's emulator).

DOSEmu is awesome!  They're working on full DPMI (for BCC, Windoze).
Wine isn't ready yet.  Once I asked them why not port WABI, they said
it's got many precompiled stuff, making it nonportable.

>Depends on how much you want to use DOS really; after installing a
>pre-emptive multi-tasking system with a decent compiler etc
>you find you only use DOS to play games anyway.

Yeah, I made a mistake.  Now I've got 300Mb+ for games and only 30Mb
left for UNIX hacking. :)

As for the {Double,Drive}Space problem, there're 2 solutions for Linux:
  1) trash it and use Double, a file system independent compressor
  2) install Linux on UMSDOS file system, a file system on top of FAT

--
`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._
  Albert Hui (The Avatar)            |
  - avatar@excalibur.apana.org.au    | "Your mind is the only prison
  - s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au    |  that can ever bind your soul."

s913631@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Darren James Reed) writes:

>s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:


>>Any suggestion on which Linux I should buy ? I'd prefer those with good
>>documentation & lots of Xwindows programs.

>The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.

>You can use X11R6 with NetBSD, and now that NetBSD is using shared libs,
>you can fit it in around 200MB with room to move (NetBSD is a much more
>complete distribution than Linux and actually works, besides being far
>superior in many aspects).

Why?  I'm running Linux, and it works.  XFree also works fine on it.
I don't particularly want to defend Linux against NetBSD (a product I'm not 
familiar with), but what exactly does NetBSD have that Linux doesn't?  


-- 
**************   raoul@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Raoul Golan)  *****************
-"I sit on a man's back, choking him, and making him carry me, and yet      - 
- assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease    -
- his lot by any means possible, except getting off his back."(Leo Tolstoy) -

s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Albert Hui) writes:

>geoff@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Geoff Wong) writes:
>>s913631@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Darren James Reed) writes:
>>>s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:
>>>>I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
>>>>lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 

>Get a better mon for your card, TrueColor under 1024x768 is OK.
>As for CD-ROM drive, get a dual speed (eg. 562-B).

>>>The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.
>>>X11R6... shared libs... complete... actually works... superior

>>Actually what you're saying about Linux is incorrect; really ...
>>While NetBSD may be more of a "true" Unix (especially BSD Unix);

>Consider these: 1) local gurus run it, 2) you can get it easily

Consider _this_:
where x = local linux gurus
and y = local linux lamers
y = ~40x

--
- Adam Frey                          Private: adam@eden.apana.org.au        -
- Melbourne, Australia            University: s932562@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au -
---------- And if it wasn't for the bullet in my breast pocket... -----------

geoff@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Geoff Wong) writes:

>I'm running Linux with X in about 100 Megs (with some megs to spare)
>no problems. It is doubtful you'd be able to do this with NetBSD.
>Of course if you want to do some serious networking then NetBSD
>if probably the choice for you; but Linux has good cacheing
>for a single user box sitting on your desk at home (with only
>a loopback for networking).

I'm not having a go at you Geoff this just seemed like a good spot to
have a go :) So..

Lemme step in here for just a minute and say that two old arguments
for/against Linux/NetBSD keep coming up and are simply not valid any
longer. They are:
    (1)	NetBSD _will_ fit in whatever Linux will fit in. NetBSD has
    	had shared libs for some time.
    (2) The Linux networking code _IS_NOT_ unstable. It _was_ unstable
    	but, let's be realistic, it hasn't existed for that long at all
	and it has been written from scratch.  It is true however that 
	NetBSD has more robust networking in so far as NFS on Linux is
	still regarded as a little slow. Otherwise, it's fine.
	believe.
--
Greg Patten                                              Melbourne, Australia
greg@loose.apana.org.au       For information on APANA mail info@apana.org.au
  or check out <a href="http://loose.apana.org.au/">The loose home page</a>

s936079@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Greg Patten) writes:

>    (2) The Linux networking code _IS_NOT_ unstable. It _was_ unstable
>    	but, let's be realistic, it hasn't existed for that long at all
>	and it has been written from scratch.  It is true however that 
>	NetBSD has more robust networking in so far as NFS on Linux is
>	still regarded as a little slow. Otherwise, it's fine.

What I should have said is that linux's NFS is dog slow. Fortunately
for me I don't use it :) I expect, like many other things in the Linux
camp, it will be addressed shortly although this one's been around for
a while.
--
Greg Patten                                              Melbourne, Australia
greg@loose.apana.org.au       For information on APANA mail info@apana.org.au
  or check out <a href="http://loose.apana.org.au/">The loose home page</a>

s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Albert Hui) writes:

>Get a better mon for your card, TrueColor under 1024x768 is OK.
>As for CD-ROM drive, get a dual speed (eg. 562-B).

Note none of the current XFree servers support 24-bit truecolour
graphics.  My advice get a good monitor .. 15" preferably with high
bandwidth and sync frequencies to get the best refresh outta X

>DOSEmu is awesome!  They're working on full DPMI (for BCC, Windoze).
>Wine isn't ready yet.  Once I asked them why not port WABI, they said
>it's got many precompiled stuff, making it nonportable.

Yuck .. why run a crippled OS on top of a useful system.  If I wanna
run DrOS I just use the real thing.

>  2) install Linux on UMSDOS file system, a file system on top of FAT

Enjoy that crippled performance 

Mull
--
         +---  --   -                                              .
         | ->*<- Marcus Barczak ->*<-  /\  mull@loose.apana.org.au
         .                                              -   --  ---+

Darren James Reed (s913631@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU) wrote:
: s931537@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (BIGGLES _pilot_) writes:

: >I'm planning to buy a Pentinum System with 16M ram, 540 plus HD, Tseng
: >lab W32P 2M PCI video board, 15' XGA monitor, CD-ROM drive ... 
nice...
: >I was once told that I should partition my hard drive to have Linux &
: >Dos/Windowz existed concurrently. If I'm gonna buy a plug & play Linux
: >on cdrom, what's the size of partition ?
depends on whether you can live with linking most things to the CD, in which
case, a Yggdrasil installation (or similar) would succeed with only 5Mb, of
course it depends if you want data space ;)
: >What if I wanna install the whole Linux onto HD, what's the size of
: >partition then ?
680Mb for Yggdrasil _complete_
: >Any suggestion on which Linux I should buy ? I'd prefer those with good
: >documentation & lots of Xwindows programs.
i prefer slackware, this can be got from Trans-Ameritech, Infomagic etc.
: The quick answer: 0MB for Linux and use the entire HD for NetBSD.
GOOD GRIEF. The usual rule applies, you get one in every crowd.
If you have a Net/Free/386BSD guru on tap, this may be a good idea, ergo
for Linux. Use what your friends have, unless you like being a loner.
: You can use X11R6 with NetBSD, and now that NetBSD is using shared libs,
: you can fit it in around 200MB with room to move (NetBSD is a much more
: complete distribution than Linux and actually works, besides being far
: superior in many aspects).
Complete in what respect? If you come from a BSDism background it's more
comfortable granted, but otherwise...
Linux has an msdos emulator, Windows emulation imminent (Real Soon Now :))

In short I use Dos/Windows and Linux including X on a 170Mb drive, split
100 / 62Mb in Linux favour, without space problems.
cheers
bryan

s933414@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Marcus Barczak) writes:
>s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Albert Hui) writes:

>>Get a better mon for your card, TrueColor under 1024x768 is OK.

>Note none of the current XFree servers support 24-bit truecolour
>graphics.  My advice get a good monitor .. 15" preferably with high
>bandwidth and sync frequencies to get the best refresh outta X

Agreed.  TrueColor probably won't be around for some time.  But then,
why did he need the PCI card with 2Mb VRAM in the first place?

>Yuck .. why run a crippled OS on top of a useful system.  If I wanna
>run DrOS I just use the real thing.

MS-Dog is an alright game loader, Windoze got a bunch of apps.
It's nice to take the best from both worlds (without rebotting :)

--
`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._
  Albert Hui (The Avatar)            |
  - avatar@excalibur.apana.org.au    | "Your mind is the only prison
  - s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au    |  that can ever bind your soul."

s931306@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Albert Hui) writes:

[..]

>Agreed.  TrueColor probably won't be around for some time.  But then,
>why did he need the PCI card with 2Mb VRAM in the first place?

TrueColour nudie gifs on the console? :)

(Ok..so I'm bored and immobile..what else can I do but post :) ?)
--
Greg Patten                                              Melbourne, Australia
greg@loose.apana.org.au       For information on APANA mail info@apana.org.au
  or check out <a href="http://loose.apana.org.au/">The loose home page</a>

s933414@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Marcus Barczak) writes:

>>  2) install Linux on UMSDOS file system, a file system on top of FAT

hahahhahaha

>Enjoy that crippled performance 

You know Mull, sometimes you just make my day. :-)

--

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