🚀 go-pugleaf

pooh_@hotmail.com wrote:

This kicks ass--it's an electronic town meeting!

> In article <351ecd74.3837994@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
>   invalid@homo-sapiens.org wrote:
> >
> > sarah fidelibus wrote:
> >
> > >can't hold their own on standardized tests?  Can you imagine
> > >immigrating to Vietnam
> >
> > Yes. I would learn Vietnamese.

Really?  Wow--that's like, a whole new alphabet and everything, 
Beavis.  Are you a savant?
 
> Of course you would, and in the meantime 

And that would be one long meantime, I would think.

> you would also have to learn mathematics, history, sciences and the 
> rest.  Therefore, you'd need some instruction in English.  
> Furthermore, giving you a standardized exam in Vietnamese would 
> border on the idiotic.

Hell--I think giving the Vietnamese a standardized exam in Vietnamese 
would border on the idotic.  [O.K., O.K., I'm kind of "neg" on the 
whole "fill in the bubble" approach to education.  The worst teachers 
I ever had used Scantron tests.]

> The Unz initiative would effectively end bilingual education in CA. 
> A recent study, published in the LA Times demonstrates that ESL 
> children learn better in bilingual programs than they do without
> bilingual programs (though both groups fall behind native speakers).

This is a difficult issue on which to hold an opinion, mainly because 
I remain unconvinced that the system we have is really the "best" 
system.  Do I think completely eradicating (I have a sinking feeling I 
didn't spell that sucker right) ESL would help?  Well, I remain 
unconvinced of that, too.  I will say, having worked with ESL students 
for a long time, that the obstacles that hinder their English-speaking 
progress are obstacles I'm not sure we as educators can help: the 
entire family speaking the native language, many of their friends 
speaking the native language.  They just don't have copious 
opportunities to practice English.  

> > I think any standardized tests should be given at a grade level 
> > where a student may be reasonably expected to have learned the 
> > language. The question is what that grade level is...
> 
> So, let's say that's the 9th grade.  So, an ESL student who 
> immigrated here in the eighth grade takes the same test as someone 
> who immigrated here in kindergarten?

Ay, there's the rub.  Such a procedure would have to assume each 
student taking the exam had been in the country for the same amount of 
time.  Not a lot of easy answers, eh?

-s

 


> ciao,
> John
> 
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