🚀 go-pugleaf

In <3a4fj4$qiu@crl10.crl.com> needhams@crl.com (Needhams Electronics) 
writes: 

>
>Robert D West (aphrael@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
>
>: As long as our economy remains stronger than that of our neighbors,
>: immigrants will come. It's like in field of dreams: if you build
>: it, they will come.
>
>They won't come if there is no incentive for them to come.  Don't get 
me 
>wrong, I'm all for taking in people who want to come to this country to 
>work hard, as I do, and pay thier fair share of the taxes, and so on. 
But 
>when someone comes to this country to live off of MY taxes, and not 
give 
>anything back to the system, that's just plain unacceptable, and I will 
>fight it tooth and nail.
>
>Don't deny this happens(in HUGE numbers), because while it's not 
>politically correct for me to say so, it's true, and everyone knows it. 

No I do not know it is true.  What leads you to think it is true?  What 
reason have you to believe that immigrants indulge in abuse of welfare 
systems more than do US citizens?

And if you use MY taxes to banish immigrants, that's just plain 
unacceptable, and I will fight it tooth and nail.

[Note: If you are willing to get a little less righteous about your 
taxes, we may have a basis for political resolution of this issue.]
 
>
>I do have problems with some parts of the bill, namely, the part that 
>bans illegal immigrant children from being educated in public schools. 
 If 
>we give them an education, there's a good chance they will become a 
>productive member of society. 
>
>However, removing FREE health care for illegal aliens is long overdue, 
>and here's why: 
>
>1> Illegal aliens for the most part don't pay taxes.(How do you file a 
>tax form with a phony Social Security Number?)  

a. Consider that you do not need a correct Social Security Number to 
have income tax withheld from your pay.   
b. Illegal people have great incentive to keep their identities and 
whereabouts secret from the INS.  They are reluctant to pay taxes and to 
file government forms because they fear exposure.  If the State of 
California were to protect them from the INS, then they might be able to 
pay taxes without fear of exposure.  To the extent they do not pay 
taxes, it is because the government will penalize them for doing so.
c. All are subject to the tax laws.  If an illegal person does not pay 
income taxes, then they should be prosecuted under the tax law.  
Removing access to medical care is not an appropriate response for 
unpaid taxes.  If a legal person did not pay taxes, and if they 
were otherwise qualified to receive free medical care, then their 
medical care would continue unaffected.  All persons are entitled to 
equal application of the laws in a democracy and especially in America.
d. Illegal people who do pay taxes are not responsible for the behavior 
of those who do not pay taxes.  To deny them government services to 
which they would otherwise be entitled is no more just than giving every 
car on the street a ticket because one of them is parked next to a 
hydrant.
>
>2> I don't get any free health care, and I DO pay taxes, so in effect, 
I 
>end up paying all of their health care bills.

For each one of us who does pay taxes, there are government programs 
that we do not approve of.  Every person is subject to the tax laws.  
You do not pay all the health care bills of illegal people.  To the 
extent that they receive some of their health care at state expense, all 
who are liable for tax and holders of state issued debt, including 
illegal people, share the costs of that care along with the other 
expenses of the government in Sacramento. 
>
>I am of course not speaking of emergency care, which is in no way 
>effected by the Prop 187.

You were not speaking of Prop 187 either, but rather of your 
preferences.  What is your agenda and who writes your speeches?
>

Is there any reason for the state to provide free health care to legal 
people?  If so, then state that reason.  If it makes sense to provide 
health care to people so they will live healthier and more productive 
and more prosperous and more taxpaying lives, then it makes sense to 
provide health care to illegal people for exactly the same reason.
>
>But, this bill is just a symptom of a MUCH bigger problem.  This whole 
 
>thing has grown out of a sense that the all the hardworking poeple in 
>this country have been paying the bills for the not-so-hardworking for 
far 
>too long, and people are very tired of it.

Unfortunately for all of us, Prop 187 does not address that issue.

>
>I personally am very tired of being judged on the color of MY skin.  
I'm 
>a white male, and everyone seems to think that because of that, and the 
>fact that I am now making good money as a software developer, that I've 
>been handed everything on a silver platter, ignoring the fact that I 
>worked scrubbing toilets, making pizzas, etc. for ten years.  I then 
>worked another five years in entry level technical stuff to get myself 
a 
>comfortable career.
>
>No one seems to realize that, for the most part, when you see someone 
>driving around in their nice car, or living in a nice house, that they 
>didn't STEAL it, they WORKED for it.

If you are insinuating that your working for a living has something to 
do with immigration, then you have yet to make your case.  Please 
proceed.

Daniel Brockman
Americans Without Borders