🚀 go-pugleaf

Milton, John, Kleim, "Jr." wrote:
> 
> Humans don't learn until it's "in their face."  And even then, they
> sometimes don't learn.  But a blackout would be a good "warning shot."

Oh sure, and after a few of those that "carefree and/or foolish" public
flock to the polls to elect candidates who promise to push through every 
new power plant proposed, regardless of how well or badly planned, its 
effects on the environment, energy policy, whatever.  "The public" is not 
a captive population you can "force" to "learn," it has the power to throw 
out virtually every impediment to getting what it wants if it is so 
motivated.

In ye olden post GeneK <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> spake...
>Milton, John, Kleim, "Jr." wrote:
>> 
>> Humans don't learn until it's "in their face."  And even then, they
>> sometimes don't learn.  But a blackout would be a good "warning shot."
>
>Oh sure, and after a few of those that "carefree and/or foolish" public
>flock to the polls to elect candidates who promise to push through every 
>new power plant proposed, regardless of how well or badly planned, its 
>effects on the environment, energy policy, whatever.  "The public" is not 
>a captive population you can "force" to "learn," it has the power to throw 
>out virtually every impediment to getting what it wants if it is so 
>motivated.


Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
Residential or business?
Rich areas or poor areas?


-- 
Bruce James Robert Linley | +---+---+--_ | "Ocha tte nigai demo... hito no chi
linley at megami dot org  | |   |NV | UT |  wa atatakakute tottemo amai no"
Programmer, Fortunet Inc. | \ CA \  |___ | "Tea is always bitter... but blood 
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA ---------> \*| AZ |  is warm and sweet"     - Miyu

In article <937m9f$j5s$1@megami.org>, linley@megami.org (Bruce Linley) 
wrote:

> 
> Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
> Residential or business?
> Rich areas or poor areas?

The Democrat Party now controls California, so it will be Republican 
districts.


--Tim May

-- 
Timothy C. May         tcmay@got.net        Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

Bruce Linley wrote:
> 
> Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
> Residential or business?
> Rich areas or poor areas?

That would depend on the agenda of whoever's making the choices.  If the
decisionmakers were attempting to remove roadblocks to new power facilities,
they'd choose residential districts where people who vote a lot live.  If
they're just trying to provide power to their own constituents and don't 
care about making a point, just check to see who's making the most campaign
contributions to the folks in power.

Tim May wrote:
> 
> The Democrat Party now controls California, so it will be Republican
> districts.

Don't think so.  whoever makes the decisions isn't going to just be
looking out for their own, but will be trying to push some agenda,
be it reducing restrictions or reregulation, they'll want to put
the fear of doom and gloom into as many voters as they can before
they offer their preferred "solutions."  Besides, regardless of
campaign rhetoric, rich, influential Democrats tend to site their
businesses and homes in pretty much the same neighborhoods as rich,
influential Republicans.

Milton John Kleim, Jr. wrote the quoted material below:
" The only immediately-implementable solution to the Energy Crisis is
" widespread, comprehensive reduction of consumption. 

I work in the neighborhood of a (1) Gap, (2) Old Navy, (3) American
Eagle, (4) Urban Outfitters, (5) Body Shop, and (6) Arbercrombie & Fitch.
During the 103 degree heatwave, EVERY ONE of these stores had their air
conditioning going strong AND THEIR FRONT DOORS WIDE OPEN.  I asked at a
couple places why they did this.  Two girls at stores looked at me as if I
were stupid.  A guy a the Gap and a woman at Old Navy both said that it
was STORE POLICY to keep the doors open so that the cold air would
attaract customers!  

Also, I can into office windows in several buildings.  At night I see
computer screens glowing long after the people have gone home.

I agree with you.  A few blackouts would help people to realize their own
conservation is important.

-- 
(C) 2001                             A typical child actor has to audition
David Kaye                               49 times to get his/her first job
                                                                          

I think if rolling blackouts occur, it will be the utilities that make
the decision with the approval of the PUC. But there must some sort of
protocol followed because when voltage drops on part of the grid, you
have to shut some part of it off right then. I would imagine that they
have breakers that will trip in certain areas if the voltage drops. I
would think residential goes first. Some corporate customers have
voluntarily blacked out with the trade off of lower rates. 

On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:29:32 GMT, GeneK
<gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote:

>Bruce Linley wrote:
>> 
>> Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
>> Residential or business?
>> Rich areas or poor areas?
>
>That would depend on the agenda of whoever's making the choices.  If the
>decisionmakers were attempting to remove roadblocks to new power facilities,
>they'd choose residential districts where people who vote a lot live.  If
>they're just trying to provide power to their own constituents and don't 
>care about making a point, just check to see who's making the most campaign
>contributions to the folks in power.

--
Brian Lavender
Sacramento, CA
http://www.brie.com/brian/
 "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.  
  We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson

linley@megami.org (Bruce Linley) wrote:

> Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
> Residential or business?
> Rich areas or poor areas?

How about analyzing the highest consumption areas, and then roll the
blackouts through those areas first, and possibly multiple times before
we get to the lower consumption areas.

Business areas should have a "weighted priority" on the list
of "targets."  Most essential businesses have emergency systems to keep
themselves going.  Old ladies in small homes do not.

--

http://www.efn.org/~mjk/          /\     \|/
                                  \/      |
                                  /\      |


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Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:

> > Gee, I wonder what areas will be chosen for the blackouts?
> > Residential or business?
> > Rich areas or poor areas?

> The Democrat Party now controls California, so it will be Republican
> districts.

I'm not a Democrat, but Republican areas are likely the highest
consumers (and wasters) of energy.  Wealth and a carefree attitude
towards resources often go hand-in-hand.

--

http://www.efn.org/~mjk/          /\     \|/
                                  \/      |
                                  /\      |


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David Kaye <dk@removethis.area.com> wrote:

> I work in the neighborhood of a (1) Gap, (2) Old Navy, (3) American
> Eagle, (4) Urban Outfitters, (5) Body Shop, and (6) Arbercrombie &
Fitch.
> During the 103 degree heatwave, EVERY ONE of these stores had their
air
> conditioning going strong AND THEIR FRONT DOORS WIDE OPEN.  I asked
at a
> couple places why they did this.  Two girls at stores looked at me as
if I
> were stupid.  A guy a the Gap and a woman at Old Navy both said that
it
> was STORE POLICY to keep the doors open so that the cold air would
> attaract customers!

EXACTLY why I believe we need a blackout.  I'll say it again, this time
in a different context: wealth and a carefree attitude towards
resources go hand-in-hand.

Americans are just WAAAY too pampered.

> Also, I can into office windows in several buildings.  At night I see
> computer screens glowing long after the people have gone home.

Every skyline in America is a pretty sight, but an enormous waste of
power.

Drive by DMV HQ off Broadway any night.  :-)

--

http://www.efn.org/~mjk/          /\     \|/
                                  \/      |
                                  /\      |


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David Kaye wrote:
> I work in the neighborhood of a (1) Gap, (2) Old Navy, (3) American
> Eagle, (4) Urban Outfitters, (5) Body Shop, and (6) Arbercrombie & Fitch.
> During the 103 degree heatwave, EVERY ONE of these stores had their air
> conditioning going strong AND THEIR FRONT DOORS WIDE OPEN.  I asked at a
> couple places why they did this.  Two girls at stores looked at me as if I
> were stupid.  A guy a the Gap and a woman at Old Navy both said that it
> was STORE POLICY to keep the doors open so that the cold air would
> attaract customers!

Excellent evidence that power prices are too low, not too high.  Harvey
Rosenfeld and the rest of the "prices on everything must be low" crowd
simply don't get it.

As long as the price of electricity is kept low, people are going to
waste it, crisis or no crisis, blackouts or no blackouts.