🚀 go-pugleaf

aaron@spectrx.sbay.org (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:

> I saw a segment on channel 5 news tonight concerning PAC*BELL's new
> ISDN to the INTERNET service which is supposed to be available within
> a month or so.  If anyone is aware of the pricing and such, could they
> share the info?  thanks

I saw them at that internet convention in SJ Convention Center.
If my memory serves, the house hold ISDN will be $22.50/month.
I'll dig up the sheet of pricing later.

--
Mookie's Place BBS            +1.408.942.1984        Los Altos SDA Church BBS
Trust No One                                         steVe@mookie.sbay.org

In article <6uRcNc5w165w@mookie.sbay.org> steve@mookie.sbay.org (Steve Kong) writes:

>I saw them at that internet convention in SJ Convention Center.
>If my memory serves, the house hold ISDN will be $22.50/month.
>I'll dig up the sheet of pricing later.

Remember that Pac*Bell's vision of "homes connected to the Internet" is
from a "client" perspective. We are not talking about a full time
connection, but rather very high speed dialup for client services.
There WILL be a per minute charge for connections.

In other words, you dial up and use your Mosaic client or your FTP
client or other service, connecting to the Internet via (surprise!)
Pac*Bell on a temporary SLIP.

I don't suspect that I will be getting rid of zygot's ADN line any time
soon, even though the trucks were out today installing the fiber.

Don't be sucked in to Pac*Bell's "info highway" hype. It ain't what you
think. None of this "super new technology" has anything to do with
making it easier or reducing your costs of becoming a host on the
Internet.

I, more than anyone, would wish for that, having a host already on the
Internet. But I am resigned to using the same old technology that I
have used for years for probably years to come. And at the same old
high prices.

-- 
 John Higdon  |    P.O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 264 4115     |       FAX:
 john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | 10288 0 700 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407

: aaron@spectrx.sbay.org (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:

: > I saw a segment on channel 5 news tonight concerning PAC*BELL's new
: > ISDN to the INTERNET service which is supposed to be available within
: > a month or so.  If anyone is aware of the pricing and such, could they
: > share the info?  thanks

Don't call "Pac Bell" for information.  The customer service reps at the
regular number will have *no idea* what you are talking about.  Instead,
call 1-800-4-PB-ISDN.

This service won't actually be starting until August and that's only
after they get approval.

In article <CquHvp.2FL@nbn.com>, Michael L Judson <judson@linex> wrote:
>: aaron@spectrx.sbay.org (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
...
>: > share the info?  thanks
>
...
>This service won't actually be starting until August and that's only
>after they get approval.

I know nothing about this particular service, but I'll share some hard-learned
info about Pac Bell.  When PB says something will happen sometime in the
future, you can be pretty sure it won't happen sooner than that.  And that
is *all* you know.  For just one example, for at least 3 years running
I've heard *vigorous* assurances from PB folks that a Residential
ISDN tariff would be in place by "next Spring" (moving into "this Fall", 
as time goes by.)  Things often seem to be awaiting approval from one
place or another (eg management or PUCC).

Now I hear it'll be this summer.  Well, one of these days it will undoubtedly
actually happen.  And maybe all the noise about ISDN to the K-12 crowd will
provide the necessary push to get a lot of stuff un-jammed.  I hope so.

Nothing against these folks, I know many are working hard.  I'm just saying
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for something that's been announced as
happening sometime in the future.

	Cliff Frost
	UC Berkeley

In article <1994Jun3.224920.18666@zygot.ati.com>,
John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> wrote:
>In article <6uRcNc5w165w@mookie.sbay.org> steve@mookie.sbay.org (Steve Kong) writes:
>
>>I saw them at that internet convention in SJ Convention Center.
>>If my memory serves, the house hold ISDN will be $22.50/month.
>>I'll dig up the sheet of pricing later.
>
>Remember that Pac*Bell's vision of "homes connected to the Internet" is
>from a "client" perspective. We are not talking about a full time
>connection, but rather very high speed dialup for client services.
>There WILL be a per minute charge for connections.
>
>In other words, you dial up and use your Mosaic client or your FTP
>client or other service, connecting to the Internet via (surprise!)
>Pac*Bell on a temporary SLIP.

So wait, Pac Bell will be providing *IP* service as well as an ISDN
pipe?  How'd they get the CPUC approve that?!?

I for one am sick of their TV ads spouting on about how they're bringing
"the Knowledge Gateway Network" to schools.  "It's real, California, and
we're building it!"  Bleah.

Actually, now that I think about it, how would they provide SLIP access
on a client-only basis?  Anyone with a SLIP account on any of the
commercial access providers now can allow people to connect to their
server, i.e. http://averagejoe.slip.netcom.com/ works when averagejoe
is using his SLIP account and has set up a web server.  

	Brian


-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"They that can give up essential liberty to # brian@wired.com 
obtain a little temporary safety deserve    # bbehlen@sfraves.stanford.edu
neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin  # http://www.wired.com/

In article <6uRcNc5w165w@mookie.sbay.org>, Steve Kong wrote:
: aaron@spectrx.sbay.org (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
:
: > I saw a segment on channel 5 news tonight concerning PAC*BELL's new
: > ISDN to the INTERNET service which is supposed to be available within
: > a month or so.  If anyone is aware of the pricing and such, could they
: > share the info?  thanks
:
: I saw them at that internet convention in SJ Convention Center.
: If my memory serves, the house hold ISDN will be $22.50/month.
: I'll dig up the sheet of pricing later.
:
: --
: Mookie's Place BBS            +1.408.942.1984        Los Altos SDA Church BBS
: Trust No One                                         steVe@mookie.sbay.org
:

I think the pricing was normal commercial rates for regular phone
lines between 8(9)-5(6) - couldn't remember exactly when. After that
zone 1 and 2 calls would be flat rate as residential voice calls.
Sounds nice - now where is a cheap Internet carrier with ISDN
access?

    +==================================================+
    | Laurence Chiu         | Walnut Creek, California |
    | Tel: 510-215-3730(wk) | Internet: lchiu@crl.com  |
    +==================================================+

In article <1994Jun3.224920.18666@zygot.ati.com>, John Higdon wrote:
: In article <6uRcNc5w165w@mookie.sbay.org> steve@mookie.sbay.org (Steve Kong) writes:
:
: >I saw them at that internet convention in SJ Convention Center.
: >If my memory serves, the house hold ISDN will be $22.50/month.
: >I'll dig up the sheet of pricing later.
:

[snip]
: In other words, you dial up and use your Mosaic client or your FTP
: client or other service, connecting to the Internet via (surprise!)
: Pac*Bell on a temporary SLIP.
:
: I don't suspect that I will be getting rid of zygot's ADN line any time
: soon, even though the trucks were out today installing the fiber.
:
: Don't be sucked in to Pac*Bell's "info highway" hype. It ain't what you
: think. None of this "super new technology" has anything to do with
: making it easier or reducing your costs of becoming a host on the
: Internet.
:

The way I heard it was one of the ways they would be assisting
with faster Internet access was they would be providing home ISDN
service for a low cost. I don't recall the exact costs but it was
something like $22/month line rental and in peak times you paid the
same as a business for a regular voice line and in offpeak times,
calls to Zone 1 and 2 destinations would be flat rated. You had to
find an Internet provider who has ISDN and they are coming.

    +==================================================+
    | Laurence Chiu         | Walnut Creek, California |
    | Tel: 510-215-3730(wk) | Internet: lchiu@crl.com  |
    +==================================================+

In <CqvvEG.L81@nbn.com>, brian@tired.wired.com (Brian Behlendorf) wrote:
> Actually, now that I think about it, how would they provide SLIP access
> on a client-only basis?  Anyone with a SLIP account on any of the
> commercial access providers now can allow people to connect to their
> server, i.e. http://averagejoe.slip.netcom.com/ works when averagejoe
> is using his SLIP account and has set up a web server.  

By charging enough of an hourly fee that it'd be cheaper to get a
leased line than to leave it up 24 hours. By doing dynamic IP
addressing when you connect (ok, so it's PPP) so you can't give an IP
address to connect to. By not doing dns beyond
P<digits>.ppp.pacbell.com for the PPP ports, so you have to use their
POP server instead of people talking SMTP to you. etc.

There are already a number of services doing things like this.  It's
basically a dialup account that uses IP instead of a terminal
emulator. It is not suitable for serving information to the net.

	<mike

> I think the pricing was normal commercial rates for regular phone
> lines between 8(9)-5(6) - couldn't remember exactly when. After that
> zone 1 and 2 calls would be flat rate as residential voice calls.
> Sounds nice - now where is a cheap Internet carrier with ISDN
> access?

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound nice.  What good is nearly continuous
access that's unavailable during business hours?  When do you think I
want to be connected?  ISDN runs across exactly the same wires as POTS
- why should we be happy with anything higher than the current POTS
rates?

			       _MelloN_
--
mellon@ncd.com						uunet!lupine!mellon
Member of the League for Programming Freedom.   To find out how software
patents may cost you your right to program, contact lpf@uunet.uu.net

In article <MELLON.94Jun6143714@pepper.ncd.com> mellon@ncd.com (Ted Lemon) writes:

>Unfortunately, it doesn't sound nice.  What good is nearly continuous
>access that's unavailable during business hours?  When do you think I
>want to be connected?  ISDN runs across exactly the same wires as POTS
>- why should we be happy with anything higher than the current POTS
>rates?

When are people going to learn that telco pricing has NOTHING to do
with cost of providing the service unless bringing it up works to the telco's
advantage in rate hearings? It may be the same pairs, the same switch,
the same anything, what counts is what telco thinks you might want to
DO with it. The telco's see BIG MONEY in end user data transmission and
they are not just about to let it slip through its hands via an ISDN
connection that it cannot collect its pound of flesh for.

Remember: from telco's perspective, the "information superhighway"
means "cable TV"--period. The telcos are NOT going to let you use the
switched network for cheap connectivity that they do not get a cut of
the action on. For that, you will need point-to-point dedicated
circuits. And when you price those, you will see that telco means
business about making money.

-- 
 John Higdon  |    P.O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 264 4115     |       FAX:
 john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | 10288 0 700 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407

>In article <MELLON.94Jun6143714@pepper.ncd.com> mellon@ncd.com (Ted Lemon) writes:
>
>>Unfortunately, it doesn't sound nice.  What good is nearly continuous
>>access that's unavailable during business hours?  When do you think I
>>want to be connected?  ISDN runs across exactly the same wires as POTS
>>- why should we be happy with anything higher than the current POTS
>>rates?
>

As far as I know, you pay subsidized rates for residential service
in California -- subsidized by returns from business services, so the
rates we are used to paying are artificially low.

With ISDN, you pay the same as a business rate POTS for
connect time.  During non business rates , you pay a flat fee. ( when
the new tariff goes into effect)

I am just interpreting Pac*Bell logic for you, I would like a 
cheap unlimited usage ISDN service too.