🚀 go-pugleaf

buster38@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> 
> It really disturbs me that you have hit the target but missed the point here.
> Children should be taught by parents that they are responsible for their own actions.
> Accountability should be taught at the same time as proper social behaviors.
> The bus driver should be held accountable for her choice of action.  The students
> should be held accountable for their choices and the action or bad behavior resulting
> from their choice.  Parents should be held accountable for their choices and the
> actions which result from those choices.

No doubt. But of course this begs the question of who will be the ones to
hold people accountable? 

Ideally, we'd all spend some time now and then reviewing "how we're doing"
and ask ourselves "did we do the right thing in that situation, could I have
done it otherwise or better".

I suspect that the trait of spending enough time in contemplation for this
process to occur is one of the first victims of this, the age of "hurry up
and wait".

In short, we might want to try to adopt a little more patience and
contemplation into our lives, if we leave ourselves time enough to think, we
can examine our choices, past and potential - I am of the opinion that if we
do this, we'll less-often find ourselves being asked "what th' heck were you
_thinking_?" and more-often hear comments like "nice call in that
situation".

> Humans are blessed with the ability to reason and make choices.  With this blessing
> comes responsibility - and ultimately accountability.
> Glibly placing the blame on bad parenting does not resolve the problem.  It seems to me
> that all participants in this scenario share accountability.
> Our society, too often of late, appears too ready to transfer blame from
> ourselves...(i.e., "it's not my fault cause I had a bad childhood"...or "it's not my
> fault cause my mother never taught me that"...or "it's not my fault because I'm a
> minority").

True enough. 

I'm a big fan of this movement starting in schools around the country, where
they're trying to inculcate, kids from the earliest ages, with the concepts
of "virtue" and "civics" and that sort of thing. We had the "Me Generation"
- raised up with an excessive helping of permissiveness - trying
ineffectively to parent their children on the basis of parenting lessons
they never received. Is it any wonder that the present generation too-often
seems ready to shift responsibility to others? What bothers me the most is
that some folks can say "it's not my fault, I come from a dysfunctional
family and don't know any better". 
Why this bothers me the most is because it's all-too-often true. 

Is it the business of school personnel to try to provide some of what
dysfunctional parents were unable to provide? I would say that since the
State/Taxpayers will probably be the ones to suffer most from badly-raised
kids, it is indeed the business of the State acting on behalf of the
taxpayers. But how will the State know how to do this? We've been seeing
half of the dysfunctionality of the Me-Generation parents coming from the
deficiencies of the educations given them by the Radical Left that dominated
American education from the late 60s through the early 90s. The core values
aren't even to be found in most of the people (who are of that age) who are
staffing the State; having the State try to raise people's kids to fly right
would be like having the blind leading the crippled into a ditch full of
gators.

Any ideas on how we can generate and bring into common circulation good
solid virtues and civic values which aren't straight out of this-or-that
religious text? We need to do this, but we don't want to exclude those who
would be upset at seeing the State force a particular religion onto kids and
young adults, or who as adults with firm convictions of their own would
resent what they would see as prosyletization.

How _can_ people be convinced, or be given the tools to convince themselves,
to take personal responsibility, not only for themselves, but for the
edification of their fellows?

> 
> buster



> 
> Lee Jaap wrote:
> 
> > In article <370174E5.D1B80BFD@idirect.ca> Lee Babcock <babcockl@idirect.ca> writes:
> >
> > |>Larry.... you are partly right, but the ones at fault are not the students,
> > |>or the teachers, but in fact the parents!  The attitude and character of
> > |>children are fairly well formed BEFORE they start school.  The school can at
> > |>best, only re-inforce what the parents MAY have instilled at home.
> > |>Unfortunately, by now, it is too late for any meaninful changes.
> > |>Regards, Lee
> > |>
> > |>
> >
> > I agree wholeheartedly. Anything anybody at school does is very minor
> > compared to the training (not) received at home.
> > --
> >      J Lee Jaap <JaapJL@POBox.com>

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