🚀 go-pugleaf

WE should hold them accountable...through the same judicial system that now exists - with a
few improvements.

I agree that it would be difficult to assign accountability in some cases.  However, in the
case of the school bus driver who lost her temper and jerked on the brakes, and thereby not
only endangered the students but also provided a really poor example to the students,  I
believe she SHOULD own up to her culpability.  Additionally, every student on the bus should
pay a penalty for contributing to the mishap.  Additionally, every parent of every student on
the bus should pay a pentalty for contributing to the misbehavior of the students on the
bus.   This would not be an infinite journey.  All the students are known.  The bus driver is
known.  The students parents are known.  The judge hearing this case should assign measures
of justice according to the misbehavior.

The reader who advised that the bus driver should say nothing to any of the cops displays the
current contempt for accountability of which you so eloquently speak.  We have all become so
cynical about the definition of right and wrong.

As to your question regarding non-denominational ethic's being taught in K-12.  I'm an
atheist and appreciate the fact that there are strict rules about the separation of church
and state, but
I think you could translate at least four of the ten commandments into common english,
justify the logic for use in human society and teach it as a way of dealing with each other
in life -  in any classroom in the US.
             1.  Respect your parents and your elders for they have experience and wisdom
from
                   which you can learn.
             2.  Don't Kill.  Life is too short for all of us.  There are too many
contributions we need
                   from each other.  To eliminate even one of us diminishes the whole.
             3.  Don't lie.  Credibility and stability requires honesty.
             4.  Don't steal or try to take things that belong to others.

       and the golden rule:  Do to and for others what you'ld like others to do to and for
you.

Internalization of these rules requires no religious affiliation and will bring about social
stabilization - which in turn, brings economic stabilization, which in turn, brings about an
environment that allows for societal advancement..at all levels.

I'm not an educator...so I don't know the current curriculum rules.  Is "ethic's" not allowed
in K-12 schooling??

buster

klaatu wrote:

> buster38@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> > It really disturbs me that you have hit the target but missed the point here.
> > Children should be taught by parents that they are responsible for their own actions.
> > Accountability should be taught at the same time as proper social behaviors.
> > The bus driver should be held accountable for her choice of action.  The students
> > should be held accountable for their choices and the action or bad behavior resulting
> > from their choice.  Parents should be held accountable for their choices and the
> > actions which result from those choices.
>
> No doubt. But of course this begs the question of who will be the ones to
> hold people accountable?
>
> Ideally, we'd all spend some time now and then reviewing "how we're doing"
> and ask ourselves "did we do the right thing in that situation, could I have
> done it otherwise or better".
>
> I suspect that the trait of spending enough time in contemplation for this
> process to occur is one of the first victims of this, the age of "hurry up
> and wait".
>
> In short, we might want to try to adopt a little more patience and
> contemplation into our lives, if we leave ourselves time enough to think, we
> can examine our choices, past and potential - I am of the opinion that if we
> do this, we'll less-often find ourselves being asked "what th' heck were you
> _thinking_?" and more-often hear comments like "nice call in that
> situation".
>
> > Humans are blessed with the ability to reason and make choices.  With this blessing
> > comes responsibility - and ultimately accountability.
> > Glibly placing the blame on bad parenting does not resolve the problem.  It seems to me
> > that all participants in this scenario share accountability.
> > Our society, too often of late, appears too ready to transfer blame from
> > ourselves...(i.e., "it's not my fault cause I had a bad childhood"...or "it's not my
> > fault cause my mother never taught me that"...or "it's not my fault because I'm a
> > minority").
>
> True enough.
>
> I'm a big fan of this movement starting in schools around the country, where
> they're trying to inculcate, kids from the earliest ages, with the concepts
> of "virtue" and "civics" and that sort of thing. We had the "Me Generation"
> - raised up with an excessive helping of permissiveness - trying
> ineffectively to parent their children on the basis of parenting lessons
> they never received. Is it any wonder that the present generation too-often
> seems ready to shift responsibility to others? What bothers me the most is
> that some folks can say "it's not my fault, I come from a dysfunctional
> family and don't know any better".
> Why this bothers me the most is because it's all-too-often true.
>
> Is it the business of school personnel to try to provide some of what
> dysfunctional parents were unable to provide? I would say that since the
> State/Taxpayers will probably be the ones to suffer most from badly-raised
> kids, it is indeed the business of the State acting on behalf of the
> taxpayers. But how will the State know how to do this? We've been seeing
> half of the dysfunctionality of the Me-Generation parents coming from the
> deficiencies of the educations given them by the Radical Left that dominated
> American education from the late 60s through the early 90s. The core values
> aren't even to be found in most of the people (who are of that age) who are
> staffing the State; having the State try to raise people's kids to fly right
> would be like having the blind leading the crippled into a ditch full of
> gators.
>
> Any ideas on how we can generate and bring into common circulation good
> solid virtues and civic values which aren't straight out of this-or-that
> religious text? We need to do this, but we don't want to exclude those who
> would be upset at seeing the State force a particular religion onto kids and
> young adults, or who as adults with firm convictions of their own would
> resent what they would see as prosyletization.
>
> How _can_ people be convinced, or be given the tools to convince themselves,
> to take personal responsibility, not only for themselves, but for the
> edification of their fellows?
>
> >
> > buster
>
> >
> > Lee Jaap wrote:
> >
> > > In article <370174E5.D1B80BFD@idirect.ca> Lee Babcock <babcockl@idirect.ca> writes:
> > >
> > > |>Larry.... you are partly right, but the ones at fault are not the students,
> > > |>or the teachers, but in fact the parents!  The attitude and character of
> > > |>children are fairly well formed BEFORE they start school.  The school can at
> > > |>best, only re-inforce what the parents MAY have instilled at home.
> > > |>Unfortunately, by now, it is too late for any meaninful changes.
> > > |>Regards, Lee
> > > |>
> > > |>
> > >
> > > I agree wholeheartedly. Anything anybody at school does is very minor
> > > compared to the training (not) received at home.
> > > --
> > >      J Lee Jaap <JaapJL@POBox.com>
>
> --
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