🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1k1vgoINNrqd@access.usask.ca> goldie@herald.usask.ca (Hugh Goldie) writes:
>I have just ordered some "red wiggler" worms for use in an indoor composter.
>(Indoor composting was discussed on rec.gardens recently.) 
<..>
>I read somewhere that tubifex worms can constipate fish, if you feed too 
>heavily.  Does anyone have any experience feeding red worms to fish?

I've had a worm culture going for awhile now (they're "red" worms
from a bait shop...they might be composting worms:  I'm not sure).
Mostly they're for a tortoise, but they breed so darn fast I've
been giving them to the fish as well.  The fish aren't quite as
enthusiastic about them as they are about some live food (which is
to say they get several inches below the surface before getting
eaten, instead of being grabbed at the surface :-)  ).  In any
case, I haven't noticed any deleterious effects.  But then, I
only feed them once a week or so.  Unless you come up with something
clever (which I'd be interested in hearing about) you have to pick
out the worms one at a time by hand, so I'm not likely to feed
them to the fish every day.

Just as a side note, I got my worm info here on the net, and
thanks to all who contributed.  The culture is a few months old
now and I have more baby worms then I know what to do with :-).
If I had the space I'd be composting as well...


-- 

James Harold                 "There is always an easy solution to
harold@wam.umd.edu            every human problem -- neat, plausible,
                              and wrong."    --  H. L. Mencken 

In article <1k1vgoINNrqd@access.usask.ca> goldie@herald.usask.ca (Hugh Goldie) writes:
>I have just ordered some "red wiggler" worms for use in an indoor composter.
>(Indoor composting was discussed on rec.gardens recently.)  Can I feed these
>to my fresh-water angel fish?  They are supposed to be smaller than garden
>worms, which sounds good, but I'd hate to give my fish indigestion or disease.
>I read somewhere that tubifex worms can constipate fish, if you feed too 
>heavily.  Does anyone have any experience feeding red worms to fish?

There's been numerous 'how to cultivate' worm postings here and maybe
somethings made it to the FAQ. I've fed those horticultural supply-house
red wigglers to my cichlids for the past few years, they work just great.
Heck, I've fed bait shop wigglers as well 'cause my bait guy cultivates
them in a compost heap, and ones I've found in my garden (where I don't
use pesticides.) There's a variety 'african red wigglers' you see in the
hobby mags that is the easiest of the bunch to cultivate indoors, not
too demanding of temp/moisture/food.

Things that are working for me:

	Keep the worms in a fish styro in a fish box. Keeps 'em warm enough
	and seemingly keeps the mites and crap *out*.

	Keep the soil fairly moist - squeeze a handful, it drips water.

	Feed organic scraps - apple, lettuce, whatever. I tried baby food for
	awhile but that seemingly fouled the soil pretty badly. Note:
	if you feed apples to your worms I've heard you shouldn't fed them
	to marine fish.

Now, I don't harvest worms by the handful - probably a dozen/week and this
culture's been going since September just fine. Soil is mostly peat moss
with some garden soil mixed in. All my fish love 'em, I do cut the worms
up for the smaller fish.
-- 
"I am the chosen one."  | Copyright 1993 mattk@usl.com. Permission for
                        | reproduction in printed media or by pay-for-read
"And I Choose to be     | services explicitly disallowed. Permission granted to
shopping!"              | USENET and like free facilities.

In article <1993Jan26.131328.10456@wam.umd.edu> 
harold@wam.umd.edu (James B. Harold) writes:
>  Unless you come up with something
>clever (which I'd be interested in hearing about) you have to pick
>out the worms one at a time by hand, so I'm not likely to feed
>them to the fish every day.

I have a sizeable cultrue outside.  If you place a piece of burlap
on the top and then spread some food on top of the burlap, say corn
meal or oatmeal, the worms will come up through the burlap to get it.
Lift the burlap and the worms come with it.  Of course, it takes some
time for the worms to move through the burlap, but if you leave it 
their and keep food on it, you should always be able to harvest some
easily.  Since burlap tends to degrade after awhile, you may be able
to find some plastic mesh that works better.  

Dean Nelson
den0@lehigh.edu

Hugh Goldie (goldie@herald.usask.ca) wrote:
: I have just ordered some "red wiggler" worms for use in an indoor composter.
: (Indoor composting was discussed on rec.gardens recently.)  Can I feed these
: to my fresh-water angel fish?  They are supposed to be smaller than garden
: worms, which sounds good, but I'd hate to give my fish indigestion or disease.
: I read somewhere that tubifex worms can constipate fish, if you feed too 
: heavily.  Does anyone have any experience feeding red worms to fish?

Your angel fish will love you.  Red wigglers, African red worms, whatever
you want to call them are great for getting fish into spawning condition.
They should probably not be the sole food source, but every 3rd or 4th
meal - fish need balanced diets, too.

--
"They thought to use and shame me but I win out by nature, because a true
freak cannot be made.  A true freak must be born." - K. Dunn, _Geek Love_

Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier

There is been a discussion of red wigglers for composting in
rec.gardens in the last couple days.  I saved one of the most
informative post.  Here it is.  See rec.gardens for more info.  It's a
good news group.

From transfer.stratus.com!noc.near.net!uunet!gatech!concert!samba!sunSITE!london Tue Jan 26 08:15:14 EST 1993
Article: 11771 of rec.gardens
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From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Info Request: Worms for Composting
Message-ID: <1993Jan26.072654.15306@samba.oit.unc.edu>
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:
>Where can I get the little red worms
>that are supposed to be so good for
>indoor composting?  I tried some
>live bait shops in town and found
>nothing.

The January 1992 issue of Organic Gardening has an article on worms and
composting, "Compost Indoors! Worms Do the Work".  It gives instructions
on building a worm box (although one is available from Gardener's
Supply).  It also tells how to get the box started and what kind of
worms to use.

The correct type are redworms (aka red wiggles or manure worms).  The are
small compared to most earthworms.  Their temperature range is 40 to 90
degrees, whereas, earthworms prefer temperature around 55 degrees.  Earth-
worms also require burrows to breed.  A worm box is too warm and too
small for them...and they tend to escape whenever possible.  Red worms
stay put.

The article is written by Mary Appelhof, author of "Worms Eat My Garbage".
The book is $10.95 including shipping and handling and is available from:
        Flower Press,
        10332 Shaver Road
        Kalamazzo Mi 49002

The list of companies carry supplies:
        Cape Cod Worm Farm
        30 Center Ave
        Buzzards Bay. Ma 02532

        Carter Fishworm Farm
        Plains Georgia 31780

        Early Bird Ecology
        RR1
        Smithville, Ont
        canada L0R 2A0

        Gardener's Supply
        128 Intervale Road
        Burlington, Vt 05401

        Redworms, C/o Ron Clausen
        2111 N. Century Blvd
        McDavid Fl 32568

        Snooks Worm Farm
        Box 14
        Harold Fl 32563

I notice that the Burpee Gardens 1992 catalog has an add for
"Red Hybrid Earthworms".  It says they range from 1/4 to 3"
long.  Are these redworms?  Will hybrid worms breed true to
type?  (Maybe I shouldn't use the term breed, given the way
worms reproduce.)  How do they make a hybrid?  I assume the
idea is to get the worms to reproduce in your compost pile,
as they only send 500 for $19.95!

I one reply I got on worms so far:

>For 2000 bedrun (various sizes where 'breeder' are the larger size.
>According to the book 'worms eat my garbage' the bedrun are recommended since
>they are cheaper, breed just as well, and may survive shipping better)
>redworms, it was 21.00, and with tax that is 22.31 (back in June)

>Are bedrun a variety of redworm or something else?
>Which variety eats the most?  (Oooh you pig worm!)

One response indicated that redworms do well in 40 to 90 deg. F.
earthworms don't do as well.  They also like to escape.

What can we say about bedruns?  (Or again are they a specific
variety of redworm, doing as well with temperatures and
housing conditions.)

>I notice that the Burpee Gardens 1992 catalog has an add for
>"Red Hybrid Earthworms".  It says they range from 1/4 to 3"
>long.  Are these redworms?  Will hybrid worms breed true to
>type?  (Maybe I shouldn't use the term breed, given the way
>worms reproduce.)  How do they make a hybrid?  I assume the
>idea is to get the worms to reproduce in your compost pile,
>as they only send 500 for $19.95!

>Are bedrun a variety of redworm or something else?
There are two different sizes' of worms, in a sense. 
The 'Breeders' are hand selected to be a
certain size, usually around the maximum three inches. The idea is these
are the ones you buy if you want to start breeding worms. Because they
hand select these, they cost more (5 or 10 bucks or so, per 1000) than
'Bedrun' worms. Bedrun means 'mixed sizes, randomly selected'. So if
you saw an ad saying '2000 bedrun Redworms, 19.95 and 2000 'breeder'
redworms , for 25.00' you'd know the difference and why one costs more than
the other.
In the book "Worms Eat My Garbage", the author says that bedrun worms are
fine to buy, since she feels they might survive shipping better, and
adapt more quickly, and she doesn't feel there is any significant reason
to spend the extra money on a 'breeder' worms ...
>Which variety eats the most?
You want the compost worms, red wigglers, redworms, the 'tiny' worms, not
anything called 'earthworms'.
>What can we say about bedruns?  (Or again are they a specific
>variety of redworm, doing as well with temperatures and
>housing conditions.)
Bedrun just describes the size range of the worm you'll be getting. Its a
mixed size range.

Someone who was interested in ordering lots of worms for *fishing* would
be interested in this since he'd want big worms for his hooks and would
probably only order breeders. That's why they have the two different size
choices...

>I have some large pickle or planter crocks about two feet high
>and 18" wide.  I thought of raising worms in these in my basement.
>Is a ceramic crock a good container, or just a waste?

Well, it doesn't 'breathe', its sealed, right? I would say you'd want
something wider, and not quite as 'deep'. It might work, might not, i really
don't know, but if you're serious and have some scrap wood lying around,
then go for making the worm boxes described in the January issue of Organic
Gardening, or the '1-2-3' worm box (which is just a box that is one foot
deep, two feet wide and three feet long, for best results, use a finely
screened lid to keep out fruitflies which become a nuisance after time...the
box has about 9, 1" drain holes on the bottom. This should be sufficiant
size to hold 2000 worms...)

The book "Worms Eat My Garbage" is a great reference and a must read for anyone
seriously into worm-composting....!



According to several of the books I read on raising worms, the "Hybrid"
designation is pure hype. No one has been able to prove a true hybrid exists.
The differences are usually tracked down to superior feed and conditions rather
than any difference in breeding. For composting, you don't need to get into
raising the biggest fattest worms, anyway. You just want enough worms to eat
enough garbage. I started with worms dug from under a horse manure pit for
free, and have had nothing but good results, even when I added them to my
outside compost bins (after they cooled a bit).
:
:
Article 12661 (50 more) in rec.gardens:
From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.)
Subject: Re: Worms and Home Composting in Winter
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:45:05 GMT

In article <1htjioINN4pu@access.usask.ca> goldie@herald.usask.ca 
(Hugh Goldie) writes:
>I recently saw part of a Canadian news program from Winnipeg, about indoor
>composting with red worms.  I would be very thankful if someone could e-mail
>or post some details about this, particularly where to get worms and how to
>get started.  It is -37 degrees centigrade in Saskabush right now and my
>outdoor compost heap is probably working rather slowly... :-).

Organic Gardening magazine had an article on this topic in the January 92
issue, by Mary Appelhof who wrote the book "Worms Eat My Garbage". The
issue has plans for a *very* nice wormbin that fits well on a porch and
doubles as a bench. It also included the following sources:

Worms Eat My Garbage (book) for $10.50 (includ shipping) from:
Flower Press
10332 Shaver Road
Kalamazoo, MI 49002

Mary Appelhof also sells vermicomposting supplies including redworms
and her latest worm composting system (a plastic rectangular container
designed for indoor use, called 'The Worms Eat My Garbage Worm-a-way'
made of recycled plastic manufactured by We recycle Corp. of
Milton, Ont. Its manufacture provides employment for developmentally
disabled individuals.)

Write to:
Flowerfield Enterprises
10332 Shaver Road
Kalamazoo, MI 49002
(616) 327-0108

Also listed were:

Cape Cod Worm Farm
30 Center Ave.
Buzzards Bay, MA 02532

Carter Fishworm Farm
Plains, GA 31780

Early Bird Ecology
RR1
Smithville, ONT
Canada L0R 2A0
(Not sure what they sell, but i would guess worms, and the plastic bin,
perhaps the book.)

Gardener's Supply
128 Intervale Rd
Burlington, VT 05401
Free catalog, they sell the plastic bin, book and worms, and all three as
a deal i believe.

Redworms c/o Ron Clausen
2111 N. Century Blvd
McDavid, FL 32568

Snooks Worm Farm
Box 14 
Harold, FL 32563

May I also add:
Rainbow Worm Farm
24700 County Road No. 95
Davis, CA 95616
(916) 758-9906

I paid 21.00 (plus tax so it came to 22.31) for about two pounds
of bedrun redworms, and they are very nice people. You *won't* get a
'flyer{ from them saying 'raising earthworms are so easy, even your
wife could do it' as i got some certain farms located in places like
georgia...:-) 

I've had bins (1'x 2'x 3' in size, 2 of them, made out of scrap wood
with drainage holes,) outside for almost two years now, and i *love*
them. I've had no problems with rats or flies or anything, they smell
like dirt, not rotting stuff, and its just magic how my foodstuffs are
turned into wonderful rich compost. I followed the directions in Mary's
book, its a great book, and so is the OG article, and if your library
has it, its free.

I haven't tried her bin, nor seen one in person, so i can't comment
on that.

Kelly
kelly@cco.caltech.edu
:


-- 
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"Maybe he's just a little insane, like painters or composers."
							-Miracle on 34th Street
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"red wigglers, the cadillac of worms..."