🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <104089@netnews.upenn.edu> ,
rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe) writes:

>I think it's only in that I'm trying to get across that I think that 
>your feet (and hence the direction to them) is imaginary in your 
>dreams.  As you begin to wake, you become aware of your body, and the 
>imagined "to your feet" lines up with the actual "to your feet" 
>perhaps before you become aware of the direction of "to the earth". 
>If, in your dream "to your feet" lined up with "to the earth", you 
>recognize this discrepancy as you come to.  I think that this scenario 
>is consistent with your observations.  Do you agree (not necessarily 
>with the scenario, but with the consistency)? 

Well, sorry but no.

I think disagreements on this topic stem from an individual's sleep
patterns.  I think as a rule, sound sleepers have less experience with the
hypnagogic state between waking and sleeping, and are likely to have a very
sharp distinction in their mind between waking and dreaming.

Light sleepers probably have more experience drifting between waking and
sleeping, and are more able to compare details from each state.
I'm sure there are more than two kinds of sleeping patterns, but I think
this categorization will illustrate my point.

Also, another point of disagreement may result from my imprecise use of
language.  When I say the sense of down is in the direction of my  feet, I
mean my dream feet.  I feel quite strongly that the sense of "up" in my
dreams is toward the top of my head, my real head and my dream head (unless
I dream I'm lying down).  The distinction between foot direction and head
orientation wouldn't show in my normal sleep positions, but could be an
issue if I slept with my head propped at a sharp angle.

When I'm drifting off to sleep, it doesn't happen all at once.  I start
seeing (and hearing) little snippets of dreamdom before I've lost body
awareness and worldly orientation.  The dreamlet pictures are always
oriented with respect to my head, the top of my head being the direction of
up in the dream flash.  My dream body (to the extent that I am aware of it)
is consistent with the notion that I am standing viewing the sideways
picture.  The experience convinces me beyond any reasonable doubt that my
waking body awareness and my dream sense of standing up are both rooted
firmly along the orientation of my real body and head

Pictures of the world in these dream flashes are definitely at a ninety
degree angle to the fading (but still present) awareness of my real
environment.

I'll concede that in deep sleep I have no way of knowing that the dream
orientation hasn't shifted with respect to my head, but to me it simply
doesn't make sense.  

Over the years I have made numerous subjective observations about how
different types of visualizations line up with my head.  The distinction
shows up when I'm lying down thinking.  If I'm thinking about the real
world such as things that I'm planning to do, the visualizations line up
with the real world and not the top of my head.  This gives me a continuous
awareness of the fact that I'm lying down.

Abstract concepts on the other hand, picture of atoms and solar systems,
and to a lessor extent ideas about things I do with my hands that don't
involve gravity, tend to orient with respect to my head.


I've come to believe that the type of orientation (head or earth) is an
integral part of the visualization, and that dreams probably maintain the
orientation of the hypnagogic flashes i.e. head.  It doesn't seem
reasonable to me that my mind would have evolved a whole repertoire of
dream symbols having random or sideways orientation with respect to my
head.

I think it's simply easier for the mind to visualize objects in their
normal orientation with respect to the brain then it is to turn everything
sideways.  The waking reclining visualization of the real world is sideways
w.r.t. the head, and it requires a waking effort (in my view) to maintain
this sideways orientation.

--
Ken Easlon                | "...somebody spoke and I went into a dream..."
ken@holonet.net           |    -Paul McCartney
Pleasantly Unaffiliated   |