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3 total messages Started by John Simms Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:05
Lorenz and Number Recognition in Birds
#2759
Author: John Simms
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:05
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Long ago I read a story, by Konrad Lorenz, I think, that concerned number
recognition in birds.  As I remember it, Lorenz wanted to study a certain
group of birds.  He built a blind, but no matter how long he stayed in it, the
birds knew he was in there and were distressed.  So he got the bright idea of
taking a friend along with him into the blind, and then having the friend
leave by himself.  No joy, the birds still knew he was in there.  So he
brought two friends with him.  They entered the blind together, they waited
awhile, and then the two friends left.  Still no joy.  He tried three friends
and then four friends and still no luck.  Finally, he tried five friends (or
something like that), and it worked:  the friends left and the birds were no
longer disturbed.

Does anyone know where this story is?  I looked for it in "King Solomon's Ring"
and in "On Aggression" and couldn't find it (I could have overlooked it).

Also, what else is known about number recognition in animals?  How much
"mathematics" can animals do, especially chimpanzees or gorillas?

I don't normally read this newsgroup, so I'd appreciate replies by E-mail,
though I will stay on for a while in case there is any interest in a general
discussion of the subject.

Thanks.

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| John C. Simms                    | Internet........: johns@mscs.mu.edu  |
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Re: Lorenz and Number Recognition in Birds
#2763
Author: Mickey Rowe
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:49
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In article <1ju46d$fc2@spool.mu.edu> johns@m.mscs.mu.edu (John Simms) writes:

>Also, what else is known about number recognition in animals?  How much
>"mathematics" can animals do, especially chimpanzees or gorillas?

Look for recent work by Tetsuro Matsuzawa--a couple of relevant
examples:

Matsuzawa, T. (1985). "Use of Numbers by Chimpanzee", _Nature_,
     315:57-59. 

and

Matsuzawa, T., Asano, T., Kubota, K., and Murofushi, K. (1986).
     "Aquisition and Generalization of Numerical Labelling by a
     Chimpanzee", in D.M. Taub, and F.A. King, (eds.) _Current
     Perspectives in Primate Social Dynamics_ Von Nostrand: Reinhold,
     New York.

Matsuzawa studies chimpanzees both in the lab and in the wild.  In his
lab, he has not only taught a few chimpanzees to count (one of them,
Ai, was up to 9 or 10 when he was here last year--she can probably go
higher now), but he's also demonstrated that they can understand such
concepts as transitivity.  He does really good work, and I encourage
you to look into it.  It's also possible that you'll find reference to
Lorenz' bird work in Matsuzawa's papers.

>| John C. Simms                    | Internet........: johns@mscs.mu.edu  |

Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)
Re: Lorenz and Number Recognition in Birds
#2764
Author: Stephen Matheson
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:57
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From article <1ju46d$fc2@spool.mu.edu>, by johns@m.mscs.mu.edu (John Simms):

> Does anyone know where this story is?  I looked for it in "King
> Solomon's Ring" and in "On Aggression" and couldn't find it (I could
> have overlooked it).

> Also, what else is known about number recognition in animals?  How much
> "mathematics" can animals do, especially chimpanzees or gorillas?

You might look up Don Griffin and his books on animal cognition: the
most recent is _Animal Minds_ in bookstores everywhere...

--

Steve Matheson   Program in Neuroscience   University of Arizona
sfm@neurobio.arizona.edu
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