🚀 go-pugleaf

Radium wrote:

> What odorous chemicals do anaerobic bacteria [excluding the
> acetic-acid-producing bacteria] produce when they feed on ethanol in an
> oxygen-free environment? What do these compounds' odors resemble?


You aren't going to find many bacteria that break down EtOH, let alone
in an oxygen-free environment.  EtOH, in high enough concentrations, is
extremely toxic.  That's why I clean off my lab bench with 70% EtOH.

However, there is an organism called Clostridium kluyveri that breaks
down EtOH anaerobically.  It's the only one I know of that can break
down EtOH, but I'm no expert on metabolism.  The reaction that it
carries out is:

     EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2

Caproate smells like goats.  Butyrate smells like vomit.

Since you have an interest in metabolism, you should look into reading
Brock Biology of Microorganisms.  They're now up to the 11th ed.  The
authors (whom I know personally) do a great job of covering metabolic
diversity.

I remeber reading that the smell of rotten milk is lactic acid from
lactose.

I can smell the iodiny smell of iodobenzene (b.p.: 188 C).  I've
smelled peptides with cystiene.  I synthesized a selenocysitene peptide
(33 mer, so lots of washes in there), that would leave a fishy small on
my fingers if I held the eppendorf tube it was in.

Now I don't think I am actually smelling the peptide or molecule, but
byproducts like I2, SH2 and elemental selenium....(?)

I guess it surprises me how sensitive my nose is and just how much
degradation is going, when you can barely see any of it by common
analytic techniques (mass spec, HPLC, NMR etc.).

Just felt like saying that.

biovirus04@gmail.com wrote:
> Radium wrote:
>
> > What odorous chemicals do anaerobic bacteria [excluding the
> > acetic-acid-producing bacteria] produce when they feed on ethanol in an
> > oxygen-free environment? What do these compounds' odors resemble?
>
>
> You aren't going to find many bacteria that break down EtOH, let alone
> in an oxygen-free environment.  EtOH, in high enough concentrations, is
> extremely toxic.  That's why I clean off my lab bench with 70% EtOH.
>
> However, there is an organism called Clostridium kluyveri that breaks
> down EtOH anaerobically.  It's the only one I know of that can break
> down EtOH, but I'm no expert on metabolism.  The reaction that it
> carries out is:
>
>      EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2
>
> Caproate smells like goats.  Butyrate smells like vomit.
>
> Since you have an interest in metabolism, you should look into reading
> Brock Biology of Microorganisms.  They're now up to the 11th ed.  The
> authors (whom I know personally) do a great job of covering metabolic
> diversity.

biovirus04@gmail.com wrote:
> Radium wrote:
>
> > What odorous chemicals do anaerobic bacteria [excluding the
> > acetic-acid-producing bacteria] produce when they feed on ethanol in an
> > oxygen-free environment? What do these compounds' odors resemble?
>
>
> You aren't going to find many bacteria that break down EtOH, let alone
> in an oxygen-free environment.  EtOH, in high enough concentrations, is
> extremely toxic.  That's why I clean off my lab bench with 70% EtOH.
>
> However, there is an organism called Clostridium kluyveri that breaks
> down EtOH anaerobically.  It's the only one I know of that can break
> down EtOH, but I'm no expert on metabolism.  The reaction that it
> carries out is:
>
>      EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2
>

> Caproate smells like goats.  Butyrate smells like vomit.

What kinds of caproates and butyrates? Are you talking about caproic
acid and butryic acid? I doubt the "-ates" have odors of their own.

>
> Since you have an interest in metabolism, you should look into reading
> Brock Biology of Microorganisms.  They're now up to the 11th ed.  The
> authors (whom I know personally) do a great job of covering metabolic
> diversity.

Radium wrote:

> What kinds of caproates and butyrates? Are you talking about caproic
> acid and butryic acid? I doubt the "-ates" have odors of their own.

Yes, caproic acid and butyric acid.  And I bet the "-ates" still smell.
 Sodium acetate smells just like acetic acid.

--Alex

********************
Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
Dept. of Microbiology
University of Washington School of Medicine
Seattle, WA  98195

biovirus04@gmail.com wrote:
> Radium wrote:
>
> > What kinds of caproates and butyrates? Are you talking about caproic
> > acid and butryic acid? I doubt the "-ates" have odors of their own.
>
> Yes, caproic acid and butyric acid.  And I bet the "-ates" still smell.
>  Sodium acetate smells just like acetic acid.
>
> --Alex
>
> ********************
> Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
> Dept. of Microbiology
> University of Washington School of Medicine
> Seattle, WA  98195

Does butyrate smell like butyric acid?

Does caproate smell like caproic acid?

biovirus04@gmail.com wrote:
> Radium wrote:
>
> > What odorous chemicals do anaerobic bacteria [excluding the
> > acetic-acid-producing bacteria] produce when they feed on ethanol in an
> > oxygen-free environment? What do these compounds' odors resemble?
>
>
> You aren't going to find many bacteria that break down EtOH, let alone
> in an oxygen-free environment.  EtOH, in high enough concentrations, is
> extremely toxic.  That's why I clean off my lab bench with 70% EtOH.
>
> However, there is an organism called Clostridium kluyveri that breaks
> down EtOH anaerobically.  It's the only one I know of that can break
> down EtOH, but I'm no expert on metabolism.  The reaction that it
> carries out is:
>
>      EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2
>

What if there is no acetate or CO2?

> Caproate smells like goats.  Butyrate smells like vomit.
>
> Since you have an interest in metabolism, you should look into reading
> Brock Biology of Microorganisms.  They're now up to the 11th ed.  The
> authors (whom I know personally) do a great job of covering metabolic
> diversity.

> Does butyrate smell like butyric acid?
>
> Does caproate smell like caproic acid?


I just told you that acetate smells like acetic acid.  So what do you
think?

Do you realize that butyrate and butyric acid are, in essence, the same
thing?  Butyric acid becomes butyrate upon dissolution in
water.....just like acetic acid becomes acetate upon dissolution in
water.  They're the same thing.....minus a proton.

********************
Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
Dept. of Microbiology
University of Washington School of Medicine
Seattle, WA  98195

> >      EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2
> >
What if there is no acetate or CO2?
>

Go look up Clostridium kluyveri metabolism, then tell me.  I have no
idea.  My guess:  EtOH won't be degraded to yield energy if there is no
acetate or CO2 present.

--Alex

*************************
Alex B. Berezow, Grad Student
Dept. of Microbiology
University of Washington School of Medicine
Seattle, WA  98195

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message 
news:1151454830.817540.46960@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>
> biovirus04@gmail.com wrote:
>> Radium wrote:
>>
>> > What odorous chemicals do anaerobic bacteria [excluding the
>> > acetic-acid-producing bacteria] produce when they feed on ethanol in an
>> > oxygen-free environment? What do these compounds' odors resemble?
>>
>> However, there is an organism called Clostridium kluyveri that breaks
>> down EtOH anaerobically.  It's the only one I know of that can break
>> down EtOH, but I'm no expert on metabolism.  The reaction that it
>> carries out is:
>>
>>      EtOH + Acetate + CO2  -->  Caproate + Butyrate + H2
>>
>
> What if there is no acetate or CO2?

Then there is no life.  Both are either intracellular intermediates or 
products of a variety of essential biological processes.

Eric Lucas