🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <7589@transfer.stratus.com>, cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes:
> In article <1992Oct27.143737.1574@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:

[deleted]

> >4.  Someone suggested that law enforcement routinely taps without
> >court order.  This is an ungrounded claim for which I have never
> >seen any evidence.					    ^^^^^
> 
> Never??  Where were you during Watergate?

This is kind of a red herring, Dorothy.  To me (and Carl, and I suspect many
other civil libertarians) the issue is not whether the govt *does* tap without
court orders (which as you say, would require some proof, not just allegation)
but rather that they currently have the ability to do so without accountability.
I agree wholeheartedly with Carl about the risks.  Yes, it would be nice to be
able to do something about organized crime, drug dealers, etc, but if the cure
is worse than the disease, it probably isn't worth it.  If anyone wants an
excellent (and chilling) portrayal of a near-worst case scenario similar to
this, read "Shockwave Rider" by John Brunner.  It's a science-fiction story
about a near-future society in which almost everything has been computerized -
and the average citizen's rights have virtually ceased to exist, because of
these (and other) risks.

> 
> 
> >We are protected from unreasonable searches and seizures, but not
> >reasonable ones in response to "probable cause" of crime.
> 
> What constitutes "probable cause"?  If I have sent some encrypted message,
> is that probable cause?
> 
> >They can break into our homes, our safes, and so on.  Do we really
> >want a society where electronic communications cannot ever be broken
> >when there is good reason to believe some major threat against society
> >is being planned?
> 
> Yup.

Second the motion.


> I'm no fan of major threats against Society.  I am a foe of major threats
> against Society.
> 
> To me, the Executive branch constitutes a major threat against Society
> -- or rather, it can unless it is kept under strict control.  The Nixon
> Administration could happen again.
> 
> -- 
> -- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
> -- Carl Ellison						cme@sw.stratus.com
> -- Stratus Computer Inc.	M3-2-BKW		TEL: (508)460-2783
> -- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298	FAX: (508)624-7488

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.