🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

5 total messages Started by Michael Mauldin Tue, 23 Feb 1988 06:44
Re: publication status of DES algorithm / NSA
#4037
Author: Michael Mauldin
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1988 06:44
24 lines
1593 bytes
Note that the DES algorithm has been published for years. See at
"Cryptography and Data Security", Dorothy Denning, Addison-Wesley,
1982.  I'm sure there's also an NBS document describing it for sale by
the US Government.  It's hard to believe that posting C source on
UseNet is subtantially different from that.  You'd have a hard time
defining the difference between an algorithm described by mathematical
pseudo-code and C source that just also happens to run on a computer.  

Of course the NSA reads this newsgroup.  But don't expect them to react
to it, much.  A big part of the business of keeping secrets is not
letting other people know what you know.  The more they react, the more
we'll know about what they worry about.  So they'll stay quietly in the
background.  Just to prove it, here's the source for a DES cracker:

	ZZZZ 0345 NOTICE
	490 LINES REMOVED TO CLASSIFIED FILE DRAWER NBS-D-5712
	CONTACT ARMY INFORMATION OFFICE, FT MEAD, MARYLAND.

See?	;-)

Michael L. Mauldin (Fuzzy)		Department of Computer Science
ARPA: Michael.Mauldin@NL.CS.CMU.EDU	Carnegie-Mellon University
Phone: (412) 268-3065			Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Re: publication status of DES algorithm / NSA
#4048
Author: Don Martin
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1988 06:35
21 lines
1237 bytes
One possibilty is to use a foriegn publisher. As an 
example, both FORTRAN and Pascal DES algorithms are published
in:

_Numerical Recipes: The Art of Scientific Computing_
Press, Flannery, Teukolsky and Vetterling.
Cambridge University Press.

A book that is highly recomded in spite of the poor 
implemetation of DES ( 1 bit per integer ).

Actually, I cannot see how a conviction could be obtained
given the wide distribution of the DES algorirthm even it
it were illegal. I would also be very surprised ( well
perhaps a little bit surprised ) if any government agency
would dare to set a precedent with DES given the great
risk of losing the case. Not to mention becoming known
as real idiots.

Don Martin  martin@entropy.ms.washington.ms
Re: publication status of DES algorithm / NSA
#4054
Author: Doug Gwyn
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1988 10:54
7 lines
828 bytes
In article <770@entropy.ms.washington.edu> martin@entropy.ms.washington.edu (Don Martin) writes:
>A book that is highly recomded in spite of the poor 
>implemetation of DES ( 1 bit per integer ).

Why do you consider that a poor implementation decision?
It's the way I would have done it.  Packed bits would be
too slow.
Re: publication status of DES algorithm / NSA
#4086
Author: Don Martin
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1988 21:00
6 lines
829 bytes
Poor was a ill chosen phrase. The Numerical Recipes DES is
quite slow but portable by using one bit per iteger. If
bit packing were used, then it should be faster. Also, it
would be pretty easy to use a variant of the integer algorithm
to do 16 or 32 blocks in parallel.
Re: publication status of DES algorithm / NSA
#4093
Author: Jim Gillogly
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 1988 16:11
32 lines
2024 bytes
In article <7343@brl-smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes:
>In article <770@entropy.ms.washington.edu> martin@entropy.ms.washington.edu (Don Martin) writes:
>>A book that is highly recomded in spite of the poor 
>>implemetation of DES ( 1 bit per integer ).
>
>Why do you consider that a poor implementation decision?
>It's the way I would have done it.  Packed bits would be
>too slow.

It's more fun to keep them in 48-bit words (or 32 if that's all you've
got) so that you can do operations on them a word at a time.  For the
permutations, for example, you can precompute the result of the permutation
applied to each byte in each position, and OR them together.  The XOR
operations happen immediately, of course.  Hauling 6- or 12-bit chunks
out to stuff through S-boxes (or doubled S-boxes if you have the luxury
of lots of memory) is simplified if you're using the 48-bit size, but
can be handled with a few shifts and logical operations without much
trouble even with 32-bit words.

Somebody (Dan Hoey?) posted some useful hacks a few months ago, including
an absolutely wonderful way to make the initial and final permutations
almost painless using a modification of a HAKMEM algorithm by Rick
Gumpertz and himself.  These used very fancy shifting and logical ops
to do the IP and FP in much less time than the table-lookup stuff that
I described briefly above (which still would need to be used for the
combined S-P operation).

	Jim Gillogly
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	{hplabs, ihnp4}!sdcrdcf!randvax!jim
	jim@rand-unix.arpa    [HASA: U (Spam) division]
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads