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3 total messages Started by Marc.Ringuette Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:20
Re: User authentication
#673
Author: Marc.Ringuette
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:20
41 lines
2790 bytes
Carl writes,
> That's a different point, though.  What I'm trying to point out is that you
> deal with me in a very real sense but you've never met me and aren't likely
> to.  Therefore, we don't need physical contact in order to communicate.
...
> If I can move money around with only my key and get caught in a love
> triangle with only my key, what more do I have to do?  :-)

I disagree with the strong form of your claim, Carl, but agree with a
weak form.

If your claim is "It doesn't matter if someone is intercepting all our
messages; one electronic entity is the same as any other," then I disagree.
Many people trust their ability to tell "what kind of person" is on the other
end of the wire, after they've corresponded for a while.  There's a world of
difference, to such a person, between "you" and "you plus a thousand people
listening in, including the FBI and the Washington Post".

But I agree with the weaker claim, that it's reasonable to correspond
with and trust an electronic persona.  We should therefore strive to 
provide a means by which each persona-owner can make sure that his or
her persona is being accurately transmitted to the world.  My secure
newsgroup, if it works, could do this.  "Persona Certificates", as 
proposed for the PEM project, are another way.  They would allow people to
register "persona" public keys, labeled as such, using the same certificate
mechanisms as for personal or organizational use.

I think personas reliably associated with public keys are a good thing.
However, I believe there are times when it's still a very good idea to
require a person's physical presence.  It takes 20 years to create a person.
It takes 20 minutes, or perhaps 20 hours or 20 days, to create a fictitious 
electronic person complete with a history of correspondence.  It all depends
on how much stability you need, I guess.


[ Marc Ringuette | Cranberry Melon University, Cucumber Science Department  ]
[ mnr@cs.cmu.edu | 412-268-3728 |      ".surivorter erutangis a ma I"       ]
[ ripem public key:                                                         ]
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[   VkAqMMGmyAx2k2A7EfLgwu9NRqDYCyTdwDXU5lvPLG7o36Lnw6UCAwEAAQ==            ]
[ ripem is unix-based, using RSA and a PEM-like format; send mail for info. ]
Re: User authentication
#690
Author: D. J. Bernstein
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:31
28 lines
1864 bytes
If you never ask the question ``Who are you?'' then you will never be
given a false answer.

For *the overwhelming bulk* of human communication it has not proven
necessary to ask the question. So it is silly to design a ``public-key
infrastructure'' which forces people to ask the question---and suffers
all the attendant problems of false answers.

When you use a public-key system, think of your messages as being sent
*from one key to another*. Accept that you don't know ``who'' controls
the keys that your keys are communicating with. You'll find that you
don't need to know.

For *special cases* such as credit transfers the credit-granting
organization can and should set up an association between what it
considers ``real people'' and keys. And for hunting down criminals one
certainly wants link-level security, so as to be able to trace any
signal to its source. But there is no need for global identities, or
even identities shared between two organizations.

If you hear that IBM just did something, do you care what *real people*
are involved in making that decision for IBM? You might, but IBM doesn't
have to tell you, and business will go on even if you don't know. The
only problem---the problem that public-key cryptography solves---is that
somebody else might pretend to be IBM, the IBM you already know, without
IBM's approval. If IBM signs its messages then this problem disappears.

---Dan (or so je m'appelle in this forum)
Re: User authentication
#734
Author: Hilarie Orman
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:43
5 lines
520 bytes
In article <9208261827.AA02445@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>, Marc.Ringuette@daisy.learning.cs.cmu.edu writes:

|>  It takes 20 years to create a person.

Please note that mileage may vary.
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