🚀 go-pugleaf

Some posts from the original I will concatenate.

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, rec.org.mensa
Date: 9 Aug 2004 21:31:15 -0700
Local: Mon, Aug 9 2004 11:31 pm

"|-|erc" <g...@beauty.com> wrote in message <news:M4pRc.
40819$K53.21864@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> "Fabrizio J. Bonsignore" <fbonsign...@beethoven.com> wrote
> > (snip)
> > But this is going too far already. The issue is whether a brain can
> > dedicate and does have the computing power in terms of activations to
> > process the signals given that they must be very weak.

> there's 2 well established principles of telepathy in common usage by the government
> but not public knowledge.

> 1 is a 90GHZ laser radar that detects faint audio from residual stimulous of spoken like thoughts
> into the voice box.

> when you're quiet your mouth doesn't 100% shut up, everything is murmured continuosly,
> speech is just high volume thought.  its sensitive enough to detect phonetically compressed
> utterances.  Our thought is not like speech, but it is composed of 'speech', using these tools
> to listen to thought is like using a microscope to see blood, structure is revealed.


I don`t understand about the laser. Do you mean you can point a laser
to read what somebody subvocalizes? Anyway, the same principle
applies, even more directly, to the mechanic signals of sound, though
I guess there must be a limit somewhere (heat, molecule vibrations)
What the brain detects is the `echo` of word utterances from among 
the
surrounding noise, though of course the problem would be how to 
`know`
it is addresed to _you_. So within everydays`s noise there are words
to be heard and it is again a matter of knowing whether the brain has
enough computing power to distinguish them.
> the second form of telepathy is reserved for famous scientists, athletes, actors, politicians,
> you name it, fame is a physical construct of the universe as tangible as color maybe.

> this is why michelangelo painted angels, raegun initiated the star wars ray-gun program, ironically
> being the very technology to evolve into telepathic reading and writing.  bill gates could have
> seen a numerologist when he was young to know he would be the most famous bill-ionare.
> lady di died, alas before I could have worked it out to save her, tiger woods.. nic cage...
> Peano - unit number, Cantor - counter, Godel - unprovable.  Amazing none of you can
> even converse that there is a link, a very strong link with discovery and inventors name.
(snip)
Please explain...

bonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) wrote in message 
<news:768f7623.0408070212.6bc270b6@posting.google.com>...
> But this is going too far already. The issue is whether a brain can
> dedicate and does have the computing power in terms of activations to
> process the signals given that they must be very weak.

Assuming a human brain has enough computing power to `analogically`
process the influence on its own activity of the signals emitted from
other brains, and the existence of areas devoted to receive and
process those signals, that telepathic reception would be far more
potent when a) there`s people around and b) the individual is in a
closed environment.
In case a) the weak signals can `resonate` among brains, for the most
part unconsciously, to generate a stronger signal more easily
transmitted. This is equivalent to say that the fields of electric
activity of each individual`s brain get `aligned`, gnerating a
stronger signal. This stronger signal would be the sum of the 
original
`ambient` content of information and the results of the processing by
the brain. The more sensitive individual would experiment the net
result as a perceived sound or as an idea. This kind of phenomena may
lie behind the usual `coincidences` when two persons start talking at
the same time and say the same phrase (notwithstanding other
psychological or situational explanations), particularly after a few
minutes of keeping silence (how many would-be lovers end long
embarrasing silences this way?). In other words, people would act 
like
anthenas. This hypothesis may point to modifications in current
parapsychological experimentation.

As for b), closed environments would isolate many random 
disturbances,
makin it easier for the brain to process the modulation in the 
signal,
both in the case of direct electromagnetic perturbances as in the 
case
of other sensorial extractions.

Is it possible to prove telepathy exists? I believe not, unless
telepaths want to show it possible. A good experiment would involve
the coordination of spatially distanced individuals, making some 
noise
after a command is given telepathically. For instance: `All telepaths
say ok!` And then hearing lots of oks... The probability of many
people saying ok at the same time without coordinatio is so small 
that
it would prove the phenomenon beyond doubt, but it would need
cooperation, very difficult to obtain given the inclination of humans
to persecute whatever exceeds the normal capabilities of an
individual.
As to the evolution of telepathy, seen as a problem of computing 
power
against strength of signals it is very likely it can only be observed
in humans and maybe some big brained animals, like elephants and
dolphins. If corroborating telepathy in humans is a difficult 
problem,
doing so in other species looks like an impossible problem. It has to
be observed here that many problems of synchronization that are
popularly presented as evidence of animal telepathy are actually the
expression of global effects of local rules, like the ordering of
animals in flocks.

What should be evident is that, as a communication channel, it has
very low advantages over hearing, for instance, as it has no obvious
spatial relationship. If proximity were an element, it would be
superseded by hearing and sight, so it wouldn`t develop. And as a
remote sense, since it would be impossible to know the source, and
what`s more, to know whether the messages are tru or false, a lead or
a mislead, the information content would tend toward zero.

At most it is a phenomenon that develops as a side effect of brain
size, if at all. (To be honest, I was expecting somebody to offer the
calculus). But if it exists, then schizophrenia would acquire a new
meaning, as the neurosis of people who didn`t learn how to integrate
their disembodied messages with everyday life.

fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) wrote in message 
<news:768f7623.0409171822.3659be77@posting.google.com>...
> what`s more, to know whether the messages are tru or false, a lead or
> a mislead, the information content would tend toward zero.

Imagine a telepathic individual who identifies signals meant for him
(people thinking of him), and he suddenly goes famous, lots of people
think of him. He not only would receive lots of messages but also,
given human`s inclination to jealousy, many evil thoughts. That
individual would experiment a cacophony, that may leave him unable to
cope with everyday affairs, a severe schizophrenia. This hypothesis
can be tested. Severe shizophrenics must be well known in their
communities, while mild schizophrenics would be almost unknown and
lonely individuals. I think of the moovie picture `A Beautiful Mind`.
This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It 
can
be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Date: 30 Oct 2004 17:05:40 -0700
Local: Sat, Oct 30 2004 7:05 pm

Michael Gray <fle...@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message 
<news:mh82m0lh2vrchpgfq41ugtmkrm5452qcqp@4ax.com>...
> On 2 Oct 2004 11:44:39 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J.
> Bonsignore) wrote:
> >fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) wrote in message <news:768f7623.0409171822.3659be77@posting.google.com>...
(snip)
> >individual would experiment a cacophony, that may leave him unable to
> >cope with everyday affairs, a severe schizophrenia. This hypothesis
> >can be tested. Severe shizophrenics must be well known in their
> >communities, while mild schizophrenics would be almost unknown and
> >lonely individuals. I think of the moovie picture `A Beautiful Mind`.

> The test would need to separate cause from effect.
> The schizophrenics that I know all displayed schizophrenic tendencies
> before they became well known.
> Their fame/infamy was mostly due to to their bizarre behaviour.

> Schizophrenia leads to being well known.


This is really very interesting. Seeing the problem mechanically, we
would indeed be interested in causes and effects. But the hypothesis
is not that becoming well known is the cause of schizophrenia, only
that both circumstances occur simultaneously.
At some point there must be an innate or induced (drugs as triggers 
of
telepathy) telepathic ability. IF, from the outset, due to education,
character or innate (IQ) factors, the individual is _not_ able to 
cope
with telepathy, we would exhibit bizarre behaviour. Then he is well
known. Then his behaviour is even more bizarre. Etc. A classical
example of positive feedback, the system reinforces itself until the
individual`s behaviour is so bizarre that he can no longer live in a
social environment. He is excluded from society. Eventually as he is
forgotten (family size would be another factor: the more relatives
worried, the less the telepathic individual`s opportunty to recover,
[unless he learns to separate both sources of informatio, telepathy
and everyday life]), schizophrenia would diminish, making the
individual more `adapted to reality`.

What would be needed is a good numeric indicator (maybe a scale? 
would
be less effective as would involve human judgement) to relate both
factors, severity and social life (distinguishing now between society
in general and family).

Note that a particular individual may be `tuned` to other telepaths
*outside* of his immediate social circle, so there could be an
unaccounted residue, maybe from the very start of the adaptation
process. Because once started it becomes a process to which the
individual must adapt.

> How would you eliminate this factor from any tests?

It would recquire a more elaborate correlation model, a dynamic one,
taking into account the story of the individual. I don`t know if
clinic notes are complete enough to be useful as input to this 
dynamic
models. I do assume that initial correlations must be strong enough 
to
warrant more careful testing with volunteers (no medication, early
detection/treatment/studies, social deprivation, for different age
brackets).
And the models must contain at least age, social interaction, family
size and drug use as variables.

> >This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
> >schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It can
> >be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.
> That makes the wild leaping assumption that there is such a thing,
> well before it has even been sufficiently established, let alone
> proven.


The fact is that alternative therapies using this hypothesis as thir
basis, if successful, would support the statistical correlation
method. Both research lines can be followed concurrently and 
reinforce
each other.
Note too that the *content* of the voices may acquire a new meaning
and lead to new testable hypothesis if seen as communication (signal)
rather than as noise.

> One thing at a time thank you.

Thank *you*, you just gave a missing argument I needed.

Note that successful telepaths (non schizophrenic or `normal`)
behaviour, have or may have reasons *NOT* to reveal their ability,
particularly given the possibility of being confused with
schizophrenics. And also note that telepaths may experience several
dangers, like, for instance, find themselves in the possession of
classified information from government agencies.
Hypothesis: successful telepaths find a field of action in the army,
the secret services and diplomatic missions (like the United 
Nations).

Do you know if there are any medications that can be administered to
schizophrenics and that are *undetectable* unless you knyou are being
adimistered a doses? (no favor...) New York would be an excellent
place to use those drugs if undetected...

Can you please reach a New York univesity with these ideas?
Thank you.

Also, about telepathic ability triggers, it may well be that extreme
circumstances can enhance the innate ability to commune/perceive
thoughts. It would provide a certain survival advantage, particularly
while the human brain was evolving subjected to the pressures of
social interaction and the development of the faculty (how to call
it?) to murder.
A candidate substance would be adrenaline. It may well be that
sporting types may develop telepathy. There should be a correlation
too between exercising as a constant practice and schizophrenics. A
good percentage of schizophrenics were also good athletes. And,
supposing that there is an inverse correlation between intelligence
and the propensity to do sports (nothing indicates it should be so, 
it
would have no survival advantage, on the contrary, though the 
practice
of sports definitely competes in term of time with the development of
the `brain muscle`), the reason they develop schizophrenic is because
they lack the necessary intellectual tools to cope with the new
information (like, for instance, dwelling in endless arguments 
without
sense).

Of course, once the correlations begin showing, successful telepaths
would have an incentive to accept their ability without being
stigmatized (and `incarcerated`)  as schizophrenics or people having
mental health issues...

(8)>

Since signals must be weak and difficult to distinguish from noise, 
or
in other words, since noise is always present (composed from the sum
total of signals of all emissors) and signals are comparatively brief
and burst-like, the brain must be able to ignore the noise while 
being
receptive of signals. Resonators would have this capacity to
`resonate` or be triggered the moment noise matches the patterns gor
which it has been formed. It must be very difficult to receive and
interpret random signals, these must match in some form what the 
brain
already expects. Except for very strong broadcastings, pure thought
reading must be nearly impossible unless it is formulated in a form
that is already mapped by the resonators. Language, visions, emotions
would share this characteristic; also particular thoughts directed
*at* the individual would be relatively easy to pick up. The same way
doves and other birds are able to orient themselves in the magnetic
field of earth, as if they had an absolute positioning system, 
signals
may contain within themselves the information needed to distinguish 
an
individual or a group of inividuals. This is equivalent to the
hypothesis that even if we are not aware of it, our sense of position
in the world, and at least the notion of particular other individuals
is present in our brains in a distinguishable way. Should this
hypothesis be true, based on the computing power of the brain to
distinguish arbitrarily small signal to noise ratios, our uniqueness
as individuals can be expressed in a unique way by our thoughts, 
while
at the sme time we can be aware of our position in relation to other
individuals. We can identify individuals uniquely simply by thinking
of them, and once a link is established (a particular signal pattern
has been matched and anticipated) a connection may be permanent and
sef reinforcing in terms of plasticity of neural activations This
would explain why schizophrenics (who can be een as unadapated
telepaths at least for those individuals who do not contain real 
brain
damage [dificult to explain, besides, as it woud mean a set of nerons
clamped in perpetual self-activation, though with enough variation as
to simulate whoe strains of converstaion, hardly the product of a
truly damaged mind {multiple personalities, possible by partitioning
if the brain, usually are unaware of each other}], engage in long
conversations, which would mean a link has been established and
reinforced. Notie that according to the assumptios, the thoughts
(signals) exchanged must be recognizable by the receptive individual:
foreign languages, unknown words, notions, concepts and ideas would 
be
difficult to commuicate through this medium. This can be gurther
refined in terms of particular architectures of neural activation...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore