🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <39jjlq$db@network.ucsd.edu>,
P. van Meurs <pim@nepac.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>Indeed when compared to the Hart poll in 1981, the 1991 Mauser poll does not
>show an increase in the use of guns, neither does the NCS. But then suddenly the
>Kleck survey which tries to limit the number of instances to 'crime prevented' 
>finds a 3 to 4 fold increase ?

Could it be that guns prevent crime by their very presence? Not
exactly. Gun owners, trained to use their guns defensively, and
showing a willingness to do so, prevent crime. That's my personal
opinion of course, backed up by common sense, and the news I read in
the paper.

Of course, statistics can be used improperly in a billion different
directions, and everyone ignores anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

>It seems that the 'anonymous' telephone survey, the small sample size, inabilit 
>of addressing telescoping have biased the results of this survey quite 
>significantly.

If you don't like Kleck's recent survey, why do you so often use his
older one?

>In contrast the NCS has found about 80,000-90,000 uses of a gun in self defense 
>_against a crime_ in extensive surveys of 65,000 households and 120,000 people 
>every six months.

120,000 people were asked, and they used guns in self-defense
80,000-90,000 times amongst themselves? In what period of time?  What
EXACTLY was the question they asked? I carry a gun a LOT. It is in my
home ready to defend against burglars. I have never had a need to use
it, and I have never had an accident. Where in all of this is a "use"
of the gun? When I use it for target shooting? When I have it with me
in public and people don't mug me? When I have it at home next to the
bed and burglars don't come in? When I go out and take safety courses?
When I go squirrel hunting with my .22 revolver?

It's always interesting to see where people call it "use" and where
people don't call it "use".

Next time ask how many times a year they have it available to defend
the home against burglars. Ask how many times a year they carry
(legally, of course) in public. Ask how many days a year they go
hunting. Ask how many days a year they practice with it. Ask how many
days a year they do sport shooting. Ask how many times a year they've
had to point it at a human being or wild attacking animal in defense
of themselves, their loved ones, or their property.

These surveys that I've read you folks bicker about are meaningless
without such distinctions in "use". After all, I'm just one guy and I
use a gun 365 times a year to defend my home, carrying concealed 300
times a year, hunting 2 days a year, sport shooting 25 times a year,
and I never have an accident and I never point it at people.

>Note that this number also includes uses by police officers, from the 1993 
>survey onward the survey will separate these incidents.

I expect police officers will use their guns... after all, if they
didn't have them, they'd be just as defenseless as HCI wants
law-abiding citizens to be. Ask for a comprehensive use survey from a
cop and see their numbers skyrocket. I've heard that some officers are
required to have their duty weapon available and usable 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week.

As you can tell I'm very much against stupid gun control. Sure, we all
want to keep the guns away from the lunatics and criminals, but it is
not accomplished by making everyone into a criminal. There are a vast
majority of gun owners that are careful users of these weapons, and
they have an inalienable right to self-defense. When the government
gets over its idiotic campaign against responsibility and returns to a
path of handling conflicts between people, there will be a cultural
change BACK to responsibility of the people to themselves, and not to
some statist dream.

Next thing you know the government will be burning books.

After all, ideas kill more people than guns do. Murder, after all, is
someone's "idea" of a solution.
-- 
Joshua R. Poulson, Widener University Department of Computer Systems
PGP Key available upon request, MIME capable, no postage due, please