🚀 go-pugleaf

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:10:21 +0100, Eeyore
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:47:27 -0700, Joerg
>>> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a major stumbling block in areas like ours: Monopoly, plus
>>>> baseline usage rules the monopoly imposes. The millisecond you exceed
>>>> baseline by IIRC as little as 30% electricity becomes painfully
>>>> expensive. Anyone who dared to use their A/C in summer knows that.
>>>> Unless this changes or one can line up a sweet and most of all longterm
>>>> night-time deal there won't be a realistic future for electric cars.
>>> One former EV-1 owner has a solution to the electric power cost
>>> problem:
>>> <http://www.solarwarrior.com>
>>> <http://www.solarwarrior.com/why.html>
> 
>> A 30kW peak output PV solar array would cost somewhere in the region of
>> $120,000 in panels alone 
> 
> I don't recall the exact total cost but I think it was about $150,000.
> That did not include legal fees and time wasted dealing with PG&E
> nonsense.
> 
>> by my estimation yet would only provide around
>> 120kWh of electricity daily (worth around $12) on average. Factor in
>> financing costs and it simply will NEVER 'pay back'
> 
> No financing that I know of on this system.
> 
> Typical production is about 15kw-hr/day.  See graphs and visually
> guess the average delivered power:
> <http://www.solarwarrior.com/historical-data.html>
> 
> Non-tracking vverage hours equivalent to full sunlight is about 4.5
> hrs in Santa Cruz County.  That yields:
>   15kw * 4.5 hrs/day = 68kw-hr/day
> 
> PG&E rates vary with usage and season.  The cost to charge the fleet
> of electric vehicles would have placed them in nearly the highest
> rates.  See:
> <http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls>
> That's the current residential rates.  My guess is that electricity
> would cost about $0.30/kw-hr at the highest rate.  


Can't see the spreadsheet but IIRC it does cost that much. As people who 
moved into this area have painfully found out. Real estate is less 
expensive than the Bay Area but the rude awakening comes when the A/C is 
used. Then PG&E begins to charge them through the nose. Same for people 
with heat pumps in winter. Which is why we had a heat pump in Europe but 
do not have one here.


>   68Kw-hr/day * $0.30/kw-hr = $20/day
> 
>> Scale that down to a 12kWh EV battery pack daily recharge and it would still
>> cost you $12,000 PLUS and the associated installation, inverter etc, say
>> $20k overall. Yet it would only cost about $1.20 for that daily recharge
>>from the mains.
> 
> The owner indicates that the calculated break even point is 18 years
> out of a 30 year lifetime.  The higher prices of electricity will make
> the break even point somewhat sooner.  I don't have all the numbers
> necessary to verify that.  I certainly won't buy into anything that
> takes 18 years to break even as I don't expect to live that long.  I
> agree that it's not very practical (unless you include government
> subsidies and rebates), but it's a start.
> 

The reason why PV is popular in Europe is that goverments there provide 
HUGE subsidies. They often get well north of 50c/kWh and the other 
ratepayers foot the bill. There is no free lunch.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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