🚀 go-pugleaf

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 11:26:49 -0700, Joerg
> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
> 
>>> Note that there are several Li-Ion conversions for Prius hybrids
>>> effectively making them electric cars.  
>>> <http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34422/113/>
>>> The new battery and plug-in charger extends the battery only range of
>>> the Prius from about 7 miles to about 20 miles.
> 
>> But those extra miles can cost you. This month's IEEE spectrum has a 
>> story of a guy who spent another $32k (!) on top of the Prius price tag 
>> to get his Li-Ion conversion. That's a bit steep.
> 
> Quite a few people think it's worthwhile.  One of the conversion
> sites:
> <http://www.calcars.org/howtoget.html>
> lists the costs of converting a Prius to various plug-in power options
> at:
> -  $6,000-10,000 for lead acid batteries
> -  $8,000 for NiMH
> - $10,000 and up for Li-Ion
> 

I wonder whether they all did a sober calculation including the rather 
finite number of charge cycles. I've seen lots of enviro-fans get 
carried away.


> One of the do it thyself sites:
> <http://www.eaa-phev.org>
> suggests about $6,000 plus 2 weeks labor.
> 
> $32,000 seems a bit extreme.
> 

Well, here's the story I mentioned. He had to plunk down $32k but that 
was with labor and not DYI:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may08/6174


>>> However, gas, electric, and such will soon be out of fashion.  What we
>>> need is a nuclear powered automobile.:
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon>
> 
>> :-)
> 
> Well, maybe a nuclear powered home water heater (and sterilizer).
> 

That would be nice. We (have to) use propane for water heating. Used to 
be $35/mo. Now it's about $80/mo. I'd call that hyper-inflationary.


>> Right now Priuses are being bought in California as if it was the best 
>> thing since sliced bread. The big three are in for another round of 
>> hardship. Don't know if they can afford another round ...
> 
> I wouldn't be so quick to blame the manufacturers.  Every time the
> economy, ecology, or government tries to push Americans into smaller
> cars, the domestic manufacturers find that only the big behemoth
> vehicles sell.  The dealers discount the "unsellable" big cars in
> order to get rid of them.  The buyers look at the price tags and
> notice they can buy a big car for sometime less than an economy car.
> Also, the buyers have a perception that they get more "value" per
> dollar in a bigger car.  The net result is that the big cars continue
> to sell, while the poorly thrown-together economy cars, tend to sit on
> the lots.
> 
> Let's play with the numbers.  A gas hog SUV will get about 14mpg.  An
> economy mini-SUV will do about 28mpg.  If I drive 15,000 miles per
> year, at $4/gallon for regular, the gas costs are:
>   $4,300 /year for the 14mpg gas hog SUV
>   $2,100 /year for the 28mpg econo SUV
> That's $2,200/year difference.  If the economy SUV costs MORE than the
> gas hog (due to dealer discounts and difference in demand), a customer
> might be willing to pay the extra $2,100/year just to drive the bigger
> SUV.  I've been looking for a new vehicle and found that I can buy a
> 2003 gas hog SUV for about $5,000 and an economy mini-SUV for about
> $12,000.  If I plan to keep it for about 3 years, I'll break even.  A
> bit more than 3 years if I throw in time value of money.
> 

Ok, my calcs are way different. I tend to keep cars for much longer than 
a decade. Heck, my trusty Mitsubishi econo SUV is 11 years old now and 
looks like new. I could imagine driving it another 10 years easily. Same 
for my wife's 1995 Toyota, looks like new, runs like new.

If I had my druthers I'd import one of those 16-horse Citroen 2CV I use 
to drive back at the university. This one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Citroen2cvtff.jpg

It always netted me around 50mpg on regular, didn't mind the transition 
to unleaded and the engine was designed 70 (!) years ago. All they 
really did later was up the horsepower once in a while.


> So, at this time, economy cars are in demand, yet I'm sure if I quiz
> the local used car dealers, the discounted gas hogs are still selling
> equally as well.
> 

Not out here. There is a reason why Toyota does so well and we can see 
that reason in driveways every day when we take our dogs for a long 
walk. Remember when the guys at Buick and other places scoffed and 
laughed once they saw an ad for the VW Beetle? Pretty soon after they 
were heard syaing things like "Oh s..t!". Anyhow, at the end of the day 
the bottomline at the individual automaker speaks the truth. And that 
truth is painfully clear.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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