🚀 go-pugleaf

Alan Liefting (aliefting@ihug.co.nz) wrote:


>> You have choices. You can choose not to use the overpriced parts if
>> you decide to - in most cases at least. Just takes more thinking.
You
>> can repair items with used parts, or differen brand ones. You can
>> choose to mod the items to get them going again, etc.

>I have made an observation.  If a part is difficult for a third party
to
>manufacture such as an LCD panel or a ink jet printer print head for
>example the manufacturer will charge a very high price.  Simple parts
>which are easily copied tend to be cheap.  I will only carry out a
>repair using second hand parts if I am happy with long term
>reliability.  I am trying to ensure the repair industry does not get
a
>bad name.  Have you also noticed that a particular product will have
a
>common fault?  You will end up with a pile of XYZ device all with the
>same fault.

Yup, and its often deliberate. But you shouldn't end up with piles, if
you pardon the phrase :), space is most definitely money. One always
has to think what can I do with that space to bring in money. It
always amazed me to see how much space small repair bizzes sometimes
give to their scrap piles. I have seen literally several roomfuls of
junk. Most of which had no realistic chance of ever being repaired
either.


> Any repair has to be safe, working, legal, and reliable. And either
> tidy or not visible outside the box. Beyond that... its upto you. Its
> perfectly possible to be a repair business that does this sort of
> thing as standard. You can be very envirnonmentally reposnsible in
> tronics, it just takes more bwain use than thoughtless part plugins.

I agree.  I have found a device I use which bypasses dud flyback pots
which cause focus drift.  Fits in quite nicely inside a monitor.

Yup. Then you might be interested to check out my old posts in the
repair ng about monitor CRTs.


>> People tend to regard such modding and part swapping as inferior,
>> simply cos it is also what bodge merchants do (incompetently), so
you
>> will need to consider how to keep your business reputation good.
That
>> isn't hard really. Honesty, decent repairs, and a reputation for
being
>> able to fix what no-one else can, will go a very long way. It
>> establishes a solid customer base. Just keep telling them you can
fix
>> what the others can't.

>Modding and bodgying does take time.

Yup, that is a real issue. I would only do it when it was worthwhile
money wise. It depends what business exactly you're in, but if its
domestic repairs you don't need to fix 100% of what people bring in.
50% is enough to keep people coming back.

And I would never bogde myself. Its really not worth it.


>I have tertiary qualification
>which allows me to make informed decisions on how to reliably modify
a
>device.  I spend some of my time putting all the right bits in a
device
>which they left out in the factory to save costs.  I work on stuff
that
>is cheap to replace.  Have to fix it quickly AND efficiently to be
>competitive with new stuff.  I do some modifying if possible.  Some
govt
>legislation does not allow for modification from orig design
especially
>power supplies.

Yup, we're luckier here, we can mod or replace PSUs as we wish, as
long as its safe. New products still dont require any approval.


>> Or you can take the loser path and run away, give up.

>Nope.  I don't plan on doing that.

Good :)


>I enjoy fixing things and I have a
>concern for the environment.  These factors combine quite nicely!  I
>repair stuff.  This extends their lifetime.  This is better for the
>environment.  I like that!  I can carry on repairing stuff until
>technology makes it obsolete.

Yup. What I liked doing was working out how to repair items the others
couldn't: then you suddenly have a market sector all to yourself.


>I see that you are in the UK.  Can you tell me about elect equip
>disposal regulations over there?  I want to have Extended Producer
>Responsibility enacted here in NZ.  NZ is not clean and green like
some
>people think.

Right. We almost don't have any. Its not my field, so I could easily
be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure most stuff is indiscriminately
landfilled. I'm not sure about CRTs. Radioactive smoke detectors are
landfilled. And we have a remarkably wasteful society. People are
persuaded to throw perfectly good items away and buy new in droves.
Silly.

If you want better info, you might try the more alternative tronic
newsgroups, eg alt.solar.PV, alt.energy etc.


If you can put a customer off buying from you, and explain to them
when they'd be better to go elsewhere, they will often come back,
again and again. Its a controversial approach, but with intelligent
people it does work well.



Rudolf Ladyzhenskii wrote...


>> You have choices. You can choose not to use the overpriced parts if
>> you decide to - in most cases at least.

>And how exactly this works, when I need, say new video head or
capstan
>motor, FBT or special IC, etc...?

Video heads are easy, there are companies that remanufacture those.
Putting used / remanufactured vid heads in is standard practice in the
UK. The same companies will normally do you capstan motors.

FBTs again there are companies that supply them very competitively. If
you're in UK take a look in Television magazine, there are stacks of
suppliers there for FBTs, vid heads, motors, ICs....

ICs are less certain, but usually one can get them, it might take 5
calls though.

Now of course not everything is available, just as not every
replacement part is available new either. But in a lot of cases they
are, and usually at low price too.

Many simpler parts can routinely be replaced with different ones.


>> Just takes more thinking. You
>> can repair items with used parts, or differen brand ones. You can
>> choose to mod the items to get them going again, etc.

>I am not getting paid for thinking -- I am getting paid for repairing
of the
>stuff. 

Interesting. I love thinking. If you don't want to think while you
repair, I can understand why this approach may not be for you. I find
it takes interest rather than extra time.


>If I spend more time on repair, someone will have to pay for this
>extra time. It either come out of my pocket or customers.

So don't spend extra time, unless its worth it for the money you save
on the part. Or unless its the only economic way to do the repair. Its
not that hard.


> Do you want your TV fixed in this fashion?

Of course. I almost always repaired my TVs in this fashion. Very
reliably too. Why would I choose to pay 10x the price for a part?

Mostly you can replace away with no worries. But if doing something
really outlandish, it is wise to explain to the customer that a new
part would be excessively expensive, but there is a non-original way
to do it that works well and perfectly reliably. Explain their various
options, including buying new, and what each would cost. Then when
they say yes to that, as most do, there is no resentment later when
another engineer opens the box and tells them exactly what their EHT
insulator is made from :) They fully understand their choices, and
appreciate you doing for them what others can't, and saving them the
cost of a new one.


> I never install second hand
>parts, unless it is not possible to get a new one. Why? Because, when
it
>breaks again, it is my reputation that suffers and I have to do free
work to
>fix it again under warranty.

Then maybe you don't have the skill to do it reliably. Not everyone
can, it does take quite a bit more understanding than putting the
mfr's bit in. And that is why so many repair bizzes will only replace
original parts, because that's all they can do.

There is nothing intrinsically unreliable about most second hand
parts. There are a few I would avoid of course.

If doing something that carries a noticeable risk of failure, if you
want to get into that, then you'd load a percentge onto the price to
cover the %age of returns.


> Beside, each part is in for a reason. 

Yes, but a repairer's goals aren't the same as a maker's goals. There
are many mods one can do quite happily. Many.


>And designers do try to use common
>parts to minimise the cost (beleive me I am a design engineer as well
as
>runningmy repair business). If an expensive parts is in, most likely
none
>other parts could suffice or designing circuit with different part
will be
>of a more cost.

Well, I can only say that's not my experience at all. From working
with various items I have often found their designs can be bettered or
economised. And I am well qualified for design.

And the second hand parts market is very different to the new market. 
Frequently one can pay 5 for second hand, and over 100 for new (eg
CRTs). Hence different choices.


>> Any repair has to be safe, working, legal, and reliable. And either
>> tidy or not visible outside the box. Beyond that... its upto you.
Its
>> perfectly possible to be a repair business that does this sort of
>> thing as standard. You can be very envirnonmentally reposnsible in
>> tronics, it just takes more bwain use than thoughtless part
plugins.

>Do you run repair business? Does not sound like you have much idea.

To be honest I'm not keen to put personal details in newsgroups, but
suffice it to say I have not had the problems you mention. If you
have, then I guess its not for you. Its not for everyone.

Regards, NT