🚀 go-pugleaf

On 12/03/2013 2:50 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> In sci.physics jg <jg@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On 11/03/2013 8:53 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> In sci.physics jg <jg@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/03/2013 7:07 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>> This shows 3 1.5 kW systems ranging from $1990 to $3990 with the caveats
>>>>> starting from and to approved customers, subject to terms and conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> These prices are no better than the US prices for equivelant systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where you get that US prices are 5 times higher is beyond me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/509196/why-solar-installations-cost-more-in-the-us-than-in-germany/
>>>>
>>>> I have seen other estimates of $7-9 per Watt in the US.
>>>
>>> You do realize that media articles aren't retail price lists?
>>>
>>>> If you can show me a price of about $2000 for 1.5 kW ($1.30 per watt) I
>>>> would question how you rate that as millionaire's territory given a 4
>>>> year payback and $400-500 pa power bill saving without any subsidy.
>>>
>>> Well, if I can make any sense of that jumble...
>>>
>>> It took me all of a couple of minutes to find local solar sellers with
>>> prices comperable to those on the web site you mentioned; they were NOT
>>> 5 times higher for comperable systems.
>>>
>>
>> Show me one
>> http://www.solargaines.com/solarpowercost.html
>
> Yeah, so what?
>
> This is a 5 kW system you are trying to compare to a 1.5 kW system.
>
> Also it is a bit of a challenge to find systems as small as yours here
> as most systems here are much larger.
>

That's $2.85 per kW and doesn't appear to include installation.

Our $2000 for 1.5kW cost $1.33 per kW including installation and 
certification.


> Here's a couple:
>
> http://pvdepot.com/solar-panel-kits/1-000-watt-expandable-monocrystalline-pv-grid-tied-solar-power-kit.html
>
> 1 kW for $2845; within your range of $1990 to $3990.
>
> 1.5 kW for $3049; again within your range of $1990 to $3990.
>
> So again, where does this solar costs 5 times more in the US than
> in Australia come from?
>

Partly the impression you have that yours are expensive, and what I saw 
seemed to confirm it.


> Perhaps because most systems here are several times larger than yours?
>

Maybe that's why you think yours are expensive.
Larger systems probably address sales arguments better, since they can 
be said to provide the equivalent of your total electricity and collect 
more from energy buy-back schemes - many who buy panels just want 
something for nothing.


>>> I have no clue what you are alluding to with "millionaire's territory".
>>>
>>
>> Someone here if not you, claimed I must have money to burn.
>
> Yeah, that was me.
>
>>> I have done the math for my situation and the best break even period
>>> I can get is better than 10 years.
>>>
>>>> Even savings would cover a loan for the outlay.
>>>
>>> This makes no sense what so ever.
>>>
>>
>> $400-500 pa saved on power bills goes instead to paying off the $2000
>> capital outlay. Without interest that's revenue neutral during payback,
>> with interest it adds a bit to the payback time.
>
> OK, you got a 4 to 5 year payback by being a welfare recipient; lucky you.
>

Electricity here costs 24c per unit.
1kWh for 5 hours = 5kWh per day x 24c = $1.20 x 365 days = $438 pa rough 
estimate.
Without the 'welfare'.
If it's too optimistic then adjust the payback time accordingly, still 
only talking about the time before they start saving you money instead 
of being no worse off, unless your situation is such that you are better 
off paying more for power and using or borrowing $2000 for something 
more profitable.


> <snip>
>
>> Never heard anyone complain they weren't a good investment, except a few
>> who thought they were getting into some get rich quick scheme with loads
>> of govt handouts.
>
> Without the big government welfare check they are NOT a good investment.
>
> Congratulations on being able to rip off your fellow taxpayers.
>

Since we bought our panels, the 'welfare' has shut down - you are on 
your own. The price has dropped (surprise, surprise), and they are still 
selling.

http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/

>> That you doubt that, makes me doubtful how objective the rest of your
>> assessment is.
>
> My assessment is based on my annual power bill, the tiered cost of
> electricity here, the costs of a solar system, the US Department of
> Energy surveys that show the actual solar irradiance that exists in my
> area, and the cost of money.
>
> Now if a big welfare system gets implemented here so I can rip off my
> fellow taxpayers and it brings the ROI down to something like 4 years,
> then I will go for it too.
>
>
>