🚀 go-pugleaf

In sci.physics jg <jg@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 9/03/2013 10:09 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:

<snip>

>> Heating is a very small user of electricity in most of the US; gas and
>> fuel oil provide most of the heat.
>>
>> This may vary in other countries.
>>
> 
> Yes, it does.

The subject was the energy used for heating.

> The one constant is that the bulk of energy demand is 
> during the day, when industry operates.

No, it is not as can be seen here:

http://www.caiso.com/SystemStatus.html

Peak demand is after sundown.

About 2/3 of the area under the curve is between noon and 1AM.

> Peak is irrelevant to whether solar cells contribute to energy use, it 
> would only be relevant if it was suggested as an all-round replacement 
> for energy production.

That you say that says you have no clue how the grid and electrical 
generation works.

A source of electricity that produces the most output when demand is low
and none when demand is high is of little use unless that source is
extremely cheap, and solar isn't cheap.

<snip>

> Dunno what's niche about where I live, but our cells save about $1.50 a 
> day at current raw unsubsidised rates, making $550 a year. They cost 
> $2000, so that's payback in 3-4 years. Then it's clear profit, even 
> without subsidies or local prices rising.

Is the the total installed cost, including building permits or do you
live somewhere without building codes, a requirment that a licensed
electrician wire it up, no UL listed inverter with autocutoff from
the grid, and you just knocked it together yourself?

<snip>

> As long as there is use for the energy solar cells provide, they contribute.

Not unless they provide energy at a competitive cost, which they don't.

<snip>

>>> Cheap was never the prime motivation for renewable energy,
>>
>> And there you have the essence of why it is such a loser in the market
>> place and why energy prices at the consumer level are going through the
>> roof.
>>
> 
> Does the market know this?

Obviously as no one builds solar anything unless there is a subsidy 
attached to it. 

> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photovoltaics_companies
> 
> 
>>> but with the
>>> price of fossil energy increasing the economics look better all the
>>> time. Especially if you are an exporter or importer of fuel.
>>
>> Nope, natural gas prices are dropping, and gas is just about the only
>> "fossil fuel" used to generate electricity unless you concider coal
>> to be a "fossil fuel", and coal use is declining.
>>
> 
> Coal is not a fossil fuel?? Why is it declining?

Mostly because of EPA restrictions making it cost too much.

> Gas prices might be dropping where you live, but not here.

Gas prices have been dropping everywhere there is gas in the ground
since 2008.

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/natural-gas/all/

> What's more it's a valuable export.

So what?

>>>>> Solar water heaters for instance do a better job of that.
>>>>
>>>> Water heating is a trivial electricity consumer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> About 1/4 of household energy use, and mostly at times when solar cells
>>> don't operate.
>>
>> Not hardly unless you have some obsession about taking 6 showers a day.
>>
> 
> http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Water,+energy+and+environment/Energy/Energy+efficiency/Home+energy+efficiency/How+energy+is+used+in+the+home

Maybe for Australia, but in the US most water heating is done by gas and
therefor irrelevant to electrical use.

<snip arm waving about fossil fuels>


-- 
Jim Pennino