🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Jul22.234558.15054@alf.uib.no>, hlirg@alf.uib.no (Roger Greenwald) writes:
|> In article <92204.135724GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu> Callec Dradja <GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|> >In article <1992Jul21.190619.21438@alf.uib.no>, hlirg@alf.uib.no (Roger
|> >Greenwald) says:
|> >>A worse one is that the New York
|> >>Times usually contains at least a few sentences every day in
|> >>which the verb does not agree with the subject in number.
|> >>The most common case is that of sentences that begin with
|> >>"There is" or "there was," and then follow up with a list
|> >>of items, each of which is singular. (There is anger and
|> >>frustration in Sarajevo tonight.)...

|> >I think that this phenomena is not new. We talked about this very
|> >topic in one of my grammar classes and it seems that in a list,
|> >Standard English speakers will use a verb that agrees with the nearest
|> >subject. This type of speech has been used by educated speakers for
|> >quite some time.
|> >
|> "phenomena" is plural :-) (but I'm sure not everyone who writes
|> for the NY Times knows that either).
|> 
|> It is true that in a sentence that contains a list, especially
|> if it starts with expletive "There," a native speaker may feel
|> it "sounds funny" to have "are" followed by a singular noun; but
|> this tends to be the case only when the noun is preceded by
|> an indefinite article. Thus: "There are a chair and a table on
|> the east wall" puts "are" next to "a chair", and that can
|> sound odd. But "There are anger and frustration here tonight"
|> should not sound equally odd (or, in my view, odd at all)....

It seems to me like this arises from a logistics problem in turning thought
into language.  You have to determine whether to use "is" or "are" before you
have sometimes decided whether there is going to be one or more items in the
complement.  People tend to start with "There is...", but if they tack on an
extra element with "and", it's too late (in speech, anyway) to go back and
correct it.

Also, it looks to me like there may be an ambiguity in how people think about
phrases like "anger and frustration".  Perhaps this is one feeling that has
multiple aspects.  If it is one feeling, then "There is" is the logical
preface.

"Phenomena", well, I'm sure that everyone well grounded in Latin grammar can
get this right.  I'm sure the _data_ is in on this!  :-)

Can anyone tell me about the use of plurals in referring to groups of people,
especially in musical bands?  I've noticed that the preference in the USA is to
use the singular for this, as in "Cosby, Stills and Nash is playing tonight"
but that in England the preference is to use the plural, as in "Led Zepplin
were on tour at the time."  It seems like this is a similar situation: if you
think of the band as an item, an element, then you would use the singular; but
if you think of it as a group of individuals, you would use the plural.


--Rich Wingerter