🚀 go-pugleaf

Don't bother to read this unless you care about Russian syntax.

In article <1992Jul29.160249.14294@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>In article <36538@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> 
>djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul23.113534.4232@athena.mit.edu> 
>>pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky) writes:
>
>DMP:
>>>nam est' 
>
>Wrong case.  Try "u nas est' komu pomoch' yemu"
>
>>>mnye   (bylo)   pomoch'     yemu
>
>Nonsense.  The ellipsis is not allowable; in any case, it should have
>been "mnye nado/nuzhno bylo pomoch' yemu"
>
>>>me-DAT was-NEUT help-infin  him-DAT
>
>me-DAT need was-NEUT help-infin  him-DAT
>
>>>`I had to help him/I was supposed to help him`
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>There are more interesting cases, like (cf. Gil Rappaport, Russian
>>>Linguistics circa 1986):
>>>
>>>nam est' komu pomoch' yemu
>
>"u nas est' komu pomoch' yemu"
>
>Where do you get these experts?

I think the expert was fine, and normally my Russian is pretty good, but
my memory of the article and my knowledge of Russian slipped here.  The
interesting point is still the dative subject that cannot be the subject
of a matrix modal.

>DAJ:
>>Here's one I ran into on soc.culture.soviet a couple of months ago:
>>
>>        v  Kieve ix       bylo          polno
>>        in Kiev  them-GEN was-NEUT/SING full-NEUT/SING
>
>Wrong case (same spelling):
>         in Kiev  them-ACC was-NEUT/SING many
>
>Attention: "p\'olno" = "full"; "poln\'o" = "many".
>
>>        'Kiev was full of them (Russians, as I remember)'
>>
>>David Johns

I'm not sure you're right here.  Suppose instead of "ix" we had an
inanimate plural noun, e.g. "jabloko" `apple`.  You get genitive, right,
not accusative:

	v Kieve jablok bylo polno
		GEN

	*v Kieve jabloka bylo polno
 		 ACC

Right?  If I'm wrong, fine, I'll drown my sorrows in Kvas.  But...well
you tell me.

In any case, there's an old but nice book on this construction by Dina
Crockett, published by Slavica some time in the 1970s.
>
>regards,
>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>who has the authority of a native speaker

-David Pesetsky
 who has the authority of a computer account