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Article #274Re: Russian dative + infinitive [Re: Chomsky's "Minimalist" paper]
From: Stefek Zaba
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1992 20:59
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1992 20:59
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2137 bytes
*Blush*! A thank-you to Margaret Mikulska for picking up on the errors
I made in would-be valid examples of Polish constructions. Seems like
the cautious motto from <SCHILLER.92Jul31145633@tira.uchicago.edu>:
>
> My preference is to use unelicidated data, which I collect during
> casual encounters with native speakers, prefereably monolinguals.
>
is highly appropriate; my samples violated both the "monolingual" and
"unforced" criteria. It's all too easy to construct something
plausible-sounding in what for me is now a secondary language: hence the
pointer to soc.culture.polish, and my gratitude for Margaret Mikulska's
corrections.
Another dat.+infinitive example occurs in the Polish with the
obligation-modal "wypadac", which renders a sense of "ought" which I
would translate as "to be (socially) fitting". For example:
Wypada mi odpowiedziec Malgosi I ought to answer Malgosia
1st-sing-DAT Malgosia-DAT
Wypada nam podziekowac jej za wyjasnienia We ought to thank her
1st-plur-DAT 3rd-sing-fem-DAT for the explanations
(Marginally more natural word order would be "Wypada nam jej podziekowac
za wyjasnenia". Since here BOTH pronouns are in the dative (komu/czemu),
changing to "Wypada jej nam podziekowac" indeed changes the roles to mean
"She ought to thank us.") In both this case and the earlier "Czas nam
jechac" example, there are English renderings which suggest the dative case:
"Czas nam jechac" as "Time for us to go", and "Wypada nam jej podziekowac"
as "It is seemly for us to thank her".
Awaiting further corrections - Stefek
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From: sjmz@otter.hpl.hp.com (Stefek Zaba) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 20:59:59 GMT Subject: Re: Russian dative + infinitive [Re: Chomsky's "Minimalist" paper] Message-ID: <2720023@otter.hpl.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK. Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!sparky!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!hpscdc!hplextra!otter.hpl.hp.com!otter!sjmz Newsgroups: sci.lang References: <1992Jul30.184138.17243@athena.mit.edu> Lines: 32