🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mar 1, 4:23 pm, Panu <craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 9:53 pm, Harlan Messinger
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> <hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Panu wrote:
> > > On Mar 1, 3:41 pm, "bobgrum...@nut-n-but.net" <bobgrum...@nut-n-
> > > but.net> wrote:
> > >>> Of course we have heard of Oscar Wilde (an Irishman), George Bernard
> > >>> Shaw (another Irishman), Eugene O'Neill (an American), Tennessee
> > >>> Williams (another American), and Arthur Miller (another American).
> > >>> August Wilson is unknown to me, but Tom Stoppard sounds vaguely
> > >>> familiar.
> > >>> It is obvious that Americans excel in drama,
> > >> Actually, America has not yet produced a first-rate (performed)
> > >> playwright.  WIlliams, O'Neill and Miller aren't even second-rate.
>
> > >>> because their culture has
> > >>> been cross-pollinated by so many non-English cultures. American
> > >>> theatrical tradition and film were obviously vitalized by immigrants
> > >>> escaping from Nazi Germany and its dominions.
> > >>> As regards good literature, there is obviously a lot of it in
> > >>> civilized languages, such as German and Polish, to mention just two of
> > >>> them.- Hide quoted text -
> > >> I'm curious, Panu, as to (1) what authors of any kind in English you
> > >> find to be first-rate, and (2) why Shakespeare is not.
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> > > Well, I like John McGahern's novel "Amongst Women", for instance, and
> > > William Butler Yeats has written some fine poetry.
>
> > > As regards Shakespeare's greatness, I think the burden of proof is on
> > > those who profess to believe in it.
>
> > I'm sorry, I didn't realize that for everything I like in life, I have
> > any obligation to prove to anyone else that I like it or that I have any
> > basis for liking it.
>
> I am always happy to tell people why I like a particular writer. I
> might even have a vivid memory of reading his works for the first
> time.
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> > > When asked why Shakespeare is so
> > > great, their answers usually boil down to the fact that they were
> > > taught so.
>
> > Really? Fascinating. I'm sure lots of people openly explain that they
> > like this or that because someone taught them that they like it. As
> > though people even think that way about the things that they like.
>
> In my opinion, the evidence for Shakespeare's greatness presented in
> this thread boils down exactly to that. The fact that people
> unwittingly quote Shakespeare all the time only shows that they were
> brought up among the cultists.-

Or that they were brought up speaking the English language.

Incidentally, Shakespeare is a lot better on the stage than on the
page.