🚀 go-pugleaf

Copper link to Alzheimer's disease: 
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045

The abstract:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1

Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
 
Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease 

[authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]

Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
(0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
for studying AD.


>  Also see:
>
>  Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
>
>  Iron and Alzheimer's disease:  
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
>
>  Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
>
>
>  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
>
>  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
>
>  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
>  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate 
>  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
>  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
>  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=- 
>
> 

How long will it take for you to get through the entire Periodic Table?
Just wondering.

Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mom> wrote in message news:<v92ojv8btt8ioq46dlpfkrb1e45nrhblt0@4ax.com>...
> A steady stream of research points to heavy metals (aluminum, iron,
> zinc, copper, and mercury) as possibly playing important roles in
> Alzheimer's disease. This latest study sheds light on copper: 
> 
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12890080&dopt=Abstract

J Am Geriatr Soc. 2003 Aug;51(8):1143-1148.  

Current Status of Metals as Therapeutic Targets in Alzheimer's
Disease.

Finefrock AE, Bush AI, Doraiswamy PM.

Department of Psychiatry, Duke University Medical Center, Durham,
North Carolina; Laboratory for Oxidation Biology Genetics and Aging
Unit and Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School,
Massachusetts General Hospital, Charlestown, Massachusetts; and
Departments of Psychiatry and Medicine (Geriatrics) and The Center for
the Study of Aging and Human Development, Duke University Medical
Center, Durham, North Carolina.

There is accumulating evidence that interactions between beta-amyloid
and copper, iron, and zinc are associated with the pathophysiology of
Alzheimer's disease (AD). A significant dyshomeostasis of copper,
iron, and zinc has been detected, and the mismanagement of these
metals induces beta-amyloid precipitation and neurotoxicity. Chelating
agents offer a potential therapeutic solution to the neurotoxicity
induced by copper and iron dyshomeostasis. Currently, the copper and
zinc chelating agent clioquinol represents a potential therapeutic
route that may not only inhibit beta-amyloid neurotoxicity, but may
also reverse the accumulation of neocortical beta-amyloid. A Phase II
double-blind clinical trial of clioquinol with B12 supplementation
will be published soon, and the results are promising. This article
summarizes the role of transition metals in amyloidgenesis and reviews
the potential promise of chelation therapy as a treatment for AD.

PMID: 12890080

>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
>
>Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model
>Alzheimer's disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they
>drank distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
>generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark
>of the degenerative illness.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1

An important take-home detail in the study above was the association
between distilled water and reduced Abeta accumulation. The following
abstract appears to refer to the same rabbit study prior to isolation
of copper as the likely causal agent. The following abstract
concludes: 

  "These findings suggest that water quality may impact 
  on human health in the setting of increased circulating
  cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple 
  life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."

 
J Alzheimers Dis. 2002 Dec;4(6):523-9.  

Water quality has a pronounced effect on cholesterol-induced
accumulation of Alzheimer amyloid beta (Abeta) in rabbit brain.

Sparks DL, Lochhead J, Horstman D, Wagoner T, Martin T.

Sun Health Research Institute, Sun City, Arizona 85351, USA.

Increased circulating cholesterol is known to promote risk of coronary
artery disease. It is now emerging that cholesterol promotes
production and accumulation of amyloid beta (Abeta) deposited in the
hallmark pathologic lesion of Alzheimer's disease (AD), the senile
plaque, perhaps by shifting away from normal metabolism of amyloid
beta protein precursor (AbetaPP) to beta. Previous studies employing
the cholesterol-fed rabbit model of AD demonstrated that induction of
AD-like Abeta accumulation in brain could be reversed by
co-administration of cholesterol lowering drugs or removing
cholesterol, prompted initiation of an AD Cholesterol-Lowering
(Statin) Treatment Trial. We now present data that identify a
previously unrecognized role for dietary water quality on the severity
of neuropathology induced by elevated cholesterol. Neuronal
accumulation of Abeta induced by increased circulating concentrations
of cholesterol in the New Zealand white rabbit is attenuated when
distilled drinking water is administered compared to use of tap water.
The numbers of neurons in cholesterol-fed rabbits that exhibited Abeta
immunoreactivity, relative to normal chow-fed controls, increased
approximately 2.5 fold among animals on tap water but only
approximately 1.9 fold among animals on distilled water. This yielded
a statistically significant approximately 28% reduction due to the use
of distilled water. In addition, the subjectively assessed intensity
of neuronal Abeta immunoreactivity was consistently reduced among
cholesterol-fed rabbits allowed distilled drinking water compared to
cholesterol-fed rabbits on tap water. As intensity of antibody
immunoreactivity is likely related to concentration of antigen, the
identified difference among cholesterol-fed rabbits allowed distilled
drinking water may hold greater importance than a significant
reduction in numbers of affected neurons. The effect on neuronal Abeta
immunoreactivity intensity was observable among cholesterol-fed
rabbits reared and allowed tap water when performing studies in three
distinct locales. Pilot data suggest the possibility of increased
clearance of Abeta from the brain, identified as increased blood
levels, among cholesterol-fed rabbits administered distilled water
compared to animals on tap water. The agent(s) occurring in tap water,
excluded by distillation, promoting accumulation of neuronal Abeta
immunoreactivity is(are) yet undisclosed, but arsenic, manganese,
aluminum, zinc, mercury, iron and nitrate have tentatively been
excluded because they were not identifiable (below detection limits)
in the tap water of the three locales where the cholesterol-induced
neuropathologic difference was observable. These findings suggest that
water quality may impact on human health in the setting of increased
circulating cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
life-style change that could be of benefit in AD.

PMID: 12515903 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12515903&dopt=Abstract



>  Also see:
>
>  Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
>
>  Iron and Alzheimer's disease:  
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
>
>  Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
>
>
>  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
>
>  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
>
>  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
>  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate 
>  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
>  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
>  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=- 
>
> 

"Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
news:5imojvg7epf7fe7prq8o0lska9ml9aa62t@4ax.com...
> >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
> >
> >Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model
> >Alzheimer's disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they
> >drank distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
> >generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark
> >of the degenerative illness.
> http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
>
> An important take-home detail in the study above was the association
> between distilled water and reduced Abeta accumulation. The following
> abstract appears to refer to the same rabbit study prior to isolation
> of copper as the likely causal agent. The following abstract
> concludes:
>
>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
>
>

<snip>

*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
would be a close to impossible task.
-- 
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

In sci.life-extension Tumbleweed <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
: "Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message

:> >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045 [...]

:>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
:>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
:>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
:>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."

: *Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
: impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
: lifetime.

Ingesting more mineral-deficient water sounds reasonably doable,
though - provided you can locate a reasonable source.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

"Tumbleweed" <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:

>>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
>>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
>>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
>>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
>>
>
>*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
>impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
>lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
>in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
>would be a close to impossible task.


  IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should 
  drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
  water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or 
  preferably, distill your own water. Coincidently I just purchased 
  the 1600 model non-electric distiller from http://WaterWise.com .

  Look for distillers without aluminum parts. I purchased my first
  distiller from Sears, and I believe the steam-collection coil was 
  aluminum. That distiller lasted only about two years. Whereas the 
  1600 from Water Wise uses your stove to heat the water, my unit 
  that eventually broke self-heated. I like the 1600 model because 
  it could last forever and contains no aluminum parts. The amount 
  of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water 
  is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise 
  been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation. 

  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm

  "Our greatest illusion is to believe that we are what 
   we think ourselves to be." Henri Amiel (1821-1881)


  

In sci.life-extension Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote:
: "Tumbleweed" <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:

:>>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
:>>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
:>>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
:>>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
:>
:>*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
:>impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
:>lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
:>in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
:>would be a close to impossible task.

:   IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should 
:   drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
:   water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or 
:   preferably, distill your own water. [...]

:   The amount of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons
:   of water is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have
:   otherwise been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.

The body needs minerals to live.  Too few are as bad as too many.

Distilled water seems controversial.  Here's what the naysayers say:

Why Purified Water is Bad For You
http://watershed.net/purified.htm
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

"Tim Tyler" <tim@tt1.org> wrote in message news:HJnJDu.3su@bath.ac.uk...
> In sci.life-extension Tumbleweed <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com>
wrote:
> : "Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
>
> :> >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045 [...]
>
> :>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
> :>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
> :>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
> :>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
>
> : *Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
> : impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
> : lifetime.
>
> Ingesting more mineral-deficient water sounds reasonably doable,
> though - provided you can locate a reasonable source.

But that isnt comparable to only ingesting pure water, which the rabbits
did. For all we know, even 10% non-distilled might destroy any effect
(assuming that you can replicate from rabbits to people)

-- 
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
news:u9mpjv4p25rn2qss7rpsmvb6av952kprtp@4ax.com...
<snip>
>   The amount
>   of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
>   is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
>   been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is not
enough.

-- 
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)



>
>
>

Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote:

>:  The amount of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons
>:  of water is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have
>:  otherwise been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
>The body needs minerals to live.  Too few are as bad as too many.
>
>Distilled water seems controversial.  Here's what the naysayers say:
>
>Why Purified Water is Bad For You
>http://watershed.net/purified.htm


  IAN: Yeah, for that reason I add trace-mineral drops to distilled
  water. Also, distilled has only been a PART of my water intake,
  which is mostly spring water. Of course some tap gets through 
  since you usually end up cooking with tap. I've not been found
  to have mineral deficiencies in any blood tests. But for those 
  on a calorie-restricted diet, you've got to be careful. Thanks
  for the reminder and the link. Can you find anything related to
  this via PubMed? If I had Alzheimer's, given the studies cited 
  in this thread, I'd probably aim for drinking mostly distilled.

    http://IanGoddard.net

     "The more restrictions and prohibitions in the world, 
        the poorer people get." Lao Tzu (Tao Te Ching)

 

"Tumbleweed" wrote
> Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
> those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is
not
> enough.

your reply would appear to imply you do not comprehend the difference
between ionized, colloidal format of minerals vs. non-diffusible portion of
minerals.

couple items in abundance in common city water tap:

Lead-
Lead is absorbed into the body through the lungs, skin, and GI tract. When
it reaches the blood, the great majority of the lead is absorbed into the
red blood cells where it binds to hemoglobin and other chemicals. From the
blood, it is dispersed through the tissues, but most of the lead is
eventually stored in skeletal bone and can prevent calcium from entering and
depositing in bone.

Mercury-
Acute and chronic mercury poisoning affects the kidneys, central nervous
system, and the gastrointestinal tract. The three telltale symptoms of
mercury poisoning are impaired articulation, irregularity of muscular
action, and constricted visual fields. Mercury poisoning through chronic
exposure to metallic and inorganic forms of mercury generally produce
nervousness, lassitude, tremor, and mucous membrane irritation. Inorganic
mercury poisoning is associated primarily with peripheral effects, including
gastroenteritis and tubular nephritis, whereas organic compounds
predominantly affect the central nervous system (CNS), which may be severe
and irreversible.
Mercury can also render our sulfahydryl system (SH) defenseless. The SH
group is our first-line defense against free radicals entering the body.
Although mercury does not destroy or lower the total number of SH groups, it
can render them virtually inactive, thereby opening the door for increased
free radical activity and increase cellular damage caused by increased,
uncontrolled oxidative reactions.

In sci.life-extension Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote:

: Can you find anything related to this via PubMed?

My link came from:

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=210005

Perusing the other documents that references produced:

  http://www.newtreatments.org/doc/WisdomExperience/107

...which is the results of someone else's medline search on the topic.

They seem better at searching than I am - though overall, material on the
topic seems scarse.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

Ian hi,

Do you know if reverse osmosis system is any good?

Thank you,

ada

"Arto Raiskio" <arto.raiskio@suomenposti.com> wrote in message
news:bhj6ff$5hoj$1@ID-102906.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Tumbleweed" wrote
> > Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
> > those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is
> not
> > enough.
>
> your reply would appear to imply you do not comprehend the difference
> between ionized, colloidal format of minerals vs. non-diffusible portion
of
> minerals.

Dont try and be smart, maybe its in a compound, maybe its an ion, maybe its
particles, whatever, it will be left behind by distilling which is what the
discussion was about (what was left after distilling). Besides which, if its
in the water it can get into your body whatever form it is in the water
though in soem forms it might get in easier.


> couple items in abundance in common city water tap:
>

<snip scare paragraphs about effects of ultra-high concentrations
(relatively) of elements>

Define 'abundance' and 'common'. These are worldwide groups.

-- 
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

On 15 Aug 2003 11:01:28 -0700, ben_nur@hotmail.com (ada) wrote:

>Ian hi,
>
>Do you know if reverse osmosis system is any good?


 IAN: The book "Water, The Ultimate Cure" by Steve Meyerowitz
 says reverse osmosis extracts most pollutants including particulate,
 matter, lead, mercury, radium, and uranium. But it also says it can
 NOT remove toxic gases, chloroform, phenol, THMs, bacteria, viruses,
 some pesticides or organic compounds of low molecular weight. It also
 says reverse osmosis wastes 6 gallons of input water for every gallon
 of purified water; membrane replacement is costly; requires post and 
 pre carbon filters; plumber is required for instillation; and water
 quality diminishes as the membrane ages. Distillation is better. 

 The text generally disagrees with the views expressed on the page 
 Tim initially cited that cautioned against distilled water. It says
 distilled water can be balanced (or reionized) by simply adding a few
 grains of rice to a gallon which it says is better than spring water,
 the contents of which may be unknown. It also says, "distilled water 
 cannot attract organically bound minerals from our bones or cells."
 It also doubts that inorganic minerals in nondistilled water can 
 be used by the body and quotes Dr Paul Bragg: "You can no more 
 digest inorganic minerals than you can dirt." Is that true?

 I've never been able to find (and haven't spent a lot of time 
 searching for) evidence supporting claims about the superiority
 of organic (colloidal) versus inorganic minerals. If anyone has 
 scientifically valid evidence on that, please post it. The book 
 I cite here came free with the distillation unit I bought, the 
 title of which calls for caution regarding the claims therein.
 Most claims about water-cures and such strike me as quackery. 

 http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm

 "To practice justice is to practice liberty." Simon Bolivar

 

Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote:

> The text generally disagrees with the views expressed on the page 
> Tim initially cited that cautioned against distilled water. It says
> distilled water can be balanced (or reionized) by simply adding a few
> grains of rice to a gallon which it says is better than spring water,
> the contents of which may be unknown. It also says, "distilled water 
> cannot attract organically bound minerals from our bones or cells."
> It also doubts that inorganic minerals in nondistilled water can 
> be used by the body and quotes Dr Paul Bragg: "You can no more 
> digest inorganic minerals than you can dirt." Is that true?

  Here's Doctor Weil's take on water distillation:

  Is drinking distilled water dangerous? ...


http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.html-command=TodayQA-questionId=21181

 

In article <3f3d0fbc$0$10784$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>,
Tumbleweed <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
>"Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
>news:u9mpjv4p25rn2qss7rpsmvb6av952kprtp@4ax.com...
><snip>
>>   The amount
>>   of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
>>   is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
>>   been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>>
>Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
>those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is not
>enough.

Drinking water is not a significant source of most minerals, with a
few minor exceptions like fluoride, which many people think is a
horrible deadly poison and shouldn't be in the water anyway.

  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net 
     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
       "I think we're on the trail of something absolutely mediocre."
                     -- Billy Wilder to Walter Matthau

Dear Ian,
Thank you, I appreciate the info. I agree with a point that you raised
earlier saying that it doesn't have to be "all-or-nothing situation".

(Dr. Weil seems to be in a good health;-)

Regards,

ada

Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message news:<725qjvke35rukl5iuihn047b1i8misihag@4ax.com>...
> Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote:
> Can you find anything related to
>   this via PubMed? If I had Alzheimer's, given the studies cited 
>   in this thread, I'd probably aim for drinking mostly distilled.


Ian and Tim,

In his answer, Dr. Weil says the following (from the link that Ian
posted):

�'While it's true that distillation removes minerals as well as
various contaminants from water, we don't know that the human body can
readily absorb minerals from water. We get our minerals from food, not
water. By one manufacturer's estimate, you would have to drink 676
eight-ounce glasses of tap water in Boston to reach the RDA for
calcium''

At the same time, Dr. Sparks (in the abstract that started this
discussion) found that the rabbits DID absorb copper from tap water. 
Soooo, while it's impossible to get enough Ca and Mg from drinking
water, it might be a different for other minerals like copper, that we
need only in trace amounts.  Makes me wonder about the other parts of
his answer about which I know nothing.

Thank you,

galya

In sci.life-extension Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mom> wrote:

: A steady stream of research points to heavy metals (aluminum, iron,
: zinc, copper, and mercury) as possibly playing important roles in
: Alzheimer's disease. This latest study sheds light on copper:

: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045

A report of a previous study:

``Research teams at Harvard Medical School, the University of Melbourne,
  and Prana Biotechnology Ltd in Australia are working collaboratively on
  giving Alzheimer's-prone mice copper chelators, substances that sop up
  metals and eliminate them from the body. These new metal-binding drugs
  effectively "melted" the amyloid plaques in living mice in as little as
  nine weeks, and are now in clinical trials with Alzheimer's
  patients. Results of the first of these drugs, clioquinol, should be
  known within 12 months, and further trials of this approach are
  currently in preparation.''

 - http://www.infoaging.org/d-alz-9-r-metals.html
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

In sci.life-extension David Wright <wright@clam.prodigy.net> wrote:

: Drinking water is not a significant source of most minerals, with a
: few minor exceptions like fluoride, which many people think is a
: horrible deadly poison and shouldn't be in the water anyway.

It's already been mentioned - but in the post at the head of this
thread it states:

``Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model Alzheimer's
  disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they drank
  distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
  generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark of
  the degenerative illness.

  The tap water contained significant amounts of copper, so Larry Sparks,
  at the Sun Health Institute in Sun City, Arizona, and Bernard Schreurs,
  at West Virginia University, then gave the rabbits distilled water
  spiked with copper supplements. 

  These rabbits developed significantly more plaques than those drinking
  only distilled water.''

It appears that the minerals in the tap water were representing
a biologically significant source of at least one mineral here.

Some of these minerals may be harmful - but other ones may be useful.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

I, Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote:

:   Results of the first of these drugs, clioquinol, should be
:   known within 12 months, and further trials of this approach are
:   currently in preparation.''

:  - http://www.infoaging.org/d-alz-9-r-metals.html

I liked a phrase here - from clioquinol's sponsor:

``Addressing investors in New York, Prana's Executive Chairman Geoffrey
  Kempler said "This is enormously encouraging for us as we have developed
  a whole library of proprietary metal protein attenuating compound
  designer molecules. These have applicability not only to Alzheimer's
  Disease but other neurodegenerative diseases including Parkinson's
  Disease".

 - http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030805/nytu075_1.html
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim@tt1.org

"Tim Tyler" <tim@tt1.org> wrote in message news:HJo1EF.8AK@bath.ac.uk...
> In sci.life-extension Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote:
> : "Tumbleweed" <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :>>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
> :>>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
> :>>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
> :>>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
> :>
> :>*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
> :>impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
> :>lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a
rabbit
> :>in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids,
this
> :>would be a close to impossible task.
>
> :   IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should
> :   drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
> :   water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or
> :   preferably, distill your own water. [...]
>
> :   The amount of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons
> :   of water is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have
> :   otherwise been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
> The body needs minerals to live.  Too few are as bad as too many.
>
> Distilled water seems controversial.  Here's what the naysayers say:

Use supplements for the essential minerals. BTW,
the most ardent tea connoisseur I've ever known
always use distilled water for his tea because he be-
lieved that distilled water made a better cuppa.

George

"Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
news:u9mpjv4p25rn2qss7rpsmvb6av952kprtp@4ax.com...
> "Tumbleweed" <tumbleweednews@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>   "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
> >>   on human health in the setting of increased circulating
> >>   cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
> >>   life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
> >>
> >
> >*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
> >impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
> >lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a
rabbit
> >in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids,
this
> >would be a close to impossible task.

>   IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should
>   drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
>   water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or
>   preferably, distill your own water. Coincidently I just purchased
>   the 1600 model non-electric distiller from http://WaterWise.com .

This thread has just scared the hell out of me. I have
lived the last 11 years in Maine on a lot which has
no public water. So we have an artesian well. I have
never had the water tested. I certainly will have it
tested now. If it doesn't test safe, I will buy the same
non-electric distiller you have. BTW, why did you
buy a distiller two years ago?

>   Look for distillers without aluminum parts. I purchased my first
>   distiller from Sears, and I believe the steam-collection coil was
>   aluminum. That distiller lasted only about two years. Whereas the
>   1600 from Water Wise uses your stove to heat the water, my unit
>   that eventually broke self-heated. I like the 1600 model because
>   it could last forever and contains no aluminum parts. The amount
>   of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
>   is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
>   been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
>   http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
>
>   "Our greatest illusion is to believe that we are what
>    we think ourselves to be." Henri Amiel (1821-1881)

galya@volcanomail.com (galya) wrote:

>Ian and Tim,
>
>In his answer, Dr. Weil says the following (from the link that Ian
>posted):
>
>�'While it's true that distillation removes minerals as well as
>various contaminants from water, we don't know that the human body can
>readily absorb minerals from water. We get our minerals from food, not
>water. By one manufacturer's estimate, you would have to drink 676
>eight-ounce glasses of tap water in Boston to reach the RDA for
>calcium''
>
>At the same time, Dr. Sparks (in the abstract that started this
>discussion) found that the rabbits DID absorb copper from tap water. 
>Soooo, while it's impossible to get enough Ca and Mg from drinking
>water, it might be a different for other minerals like copper, that we
>need only in trace amounts.  Makes me wonder about the other parts of
>his answer about which I know nothing.


  IAN: I see your point. However, consider that Weil says the body 
  does not "readily absorb" minerals from water. By saying "readily"
  he does not exclude absorption, he says "does not easily absorb."
  It could also be a qualification placed upon minerals per se where
  some are, while others are not, easily absorbed. Or what he may be 
  saying is that the body cannot readily UTILIZE minerals from water. 

  But his argument seems to rest on the warrant that "pure = good," 
  and I'm not so sure that necessarily follows, especially if the 
  matter is that there are some minerals you want to be in water. 
  But where I think he makes the case for distillation is that 
  there's all kinds of junk you don't want in water, and you 
  can't be totally sure how pure spring water is. As far as I 
  can see, this points to the best option being distilled; and
  make sure you get enough minerals from food and/or supplements. 
  I think that's basically what he's saying, and I tend to agree.
  
  http://IanGoddard.net

  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin

  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate 
  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=- 

 

"George W. Cherry" <GWCherryHatesGreenEggsAndSpam@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>This thread has just scared the hell out of me. I have
>lived the last 11 years in Maine on a lot which has
>no public water. So we have an artesian well. I have
>never had the water tested. I certainly will have it
>tested now. 

 IAN: What I don't understand (among so many other things :) 
 is how relatively minute traces of copper in water would be 
 more harmful than the much larger quantities in food. Perhaps 
 it's a matter of organic versus inorganic copper.?? It also 
 makes me wonder about copper in vitamin supplements. The Life
 Extension Foundation offers the option of copper-free LE Mix,
 and they excluded iron altogether years ago. The calcium pill
 I take has copper, and I've taken several bottles over time. 

 Hope you caught Tim's posts. He made a real good-news find:

 http://www.google.com/groups?selm=HJqBD7.165%40bath.ac.uk
 http://www.google.com/groups?selm=HJqC5q.1zM%40bath.ac.uk

 There are hopeful anti-Alzheimer's drugs that chelate (ie, 
 attach to and remove) copper from the brain. The fact that 
 these drugs "melted" amyloid deposits in mice in nine weeks
 is not only great news, it's remarkable evidence that copper
 may not merely play a role but might be central to Alzheimer's.


>If it doesn't test safe, I will buy the same non-electric distiller you have. 
>BTW, why did you buy a distiller two years ago?


 IAN: Last Friday I distilled three gallons with my new 1600
 Water Wise model. It was more labor intensive than the unit
 I had before, which was very similar to the table-top units
 from http://waterwise.com (it looked just like model 4000).
 With the 1600, you have to watch the time to turn off the 
 stove, whereas the table-top units automatically turn off. 
 You also have to place water in the three trays above the 
 main boiling chamber, and the water in the trays boils off
 into the air, which, if you don't have a fan over the stove
 increases the humidity -- good in winter, bad in the summer. 

 See the three trays here: http://waterwise.com/images/1600p.jpg

 The hassle was that for each of the three cycles I ran, the water
 in the trays boiled off BEFORE the main chamber finished, so I had
 to add more water to the three trays. The table-top units are like:
 add water, turn on, forget. But an advantage of the 1600 is that so
 long as you don't smash it up, it may last forever. It also doesn't
 require an output carbon filter and could be used wherever you can
 produce heat, which might be useful on camping trips where you can 
 haul it. But you might want to consider a simpler hassle-free unit.
 Just make sure that whatever you buy contains no aluminum parts,
 which matters since the steam is hot and could leach aluminum.
  
 I purchased my first distiller to reduce the purchasing and hauling
 of gallons of spring water. That unit broke down some time ago and
 I've been doing spring water since. I opted to purchase this unit
 after the growing data on metals and knowing that *supposedly* 
 distilled water attracts and removes inorganic metals. It's 
 just amazing that a day after it arrived I read this news
 http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045 


 http://IanGoddard.net

 "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin

 Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
 reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate 
 that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
 ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
 August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=- 

 

We must not forget that metals bind to proteins in different ways

Copper bonds to thiol groups and also to coordinately bonds to
nitrogens.
Mercury bonds particularly strongly to thiols.
Aluminium bonds to negative charged areas and not to thiols or
nitrogens. (also ferric iron)

So that the bonding of some metals is independent of others.

The picture is obviously not simple.

Bob M

> IAN: Last Friday I distilled three gallons with my new 1600
> Water Wise model. It was more labor intensive than the unit
> I had before, which was very similar to the table-top units
> from http://waterwise.com (it looked just like model 4000).


  UPDATE: I'm returning the model 1600 that I just purchased.
  At least for the unit I received, there's a serious problem.
  I purchased a long tube (about three-feet long) that runs to
  a three-gallon collection tank. I just noticed that along the
  path that the distilled water ran from the unit into the tank
  there is a copper(!!) colored residue that is very dark where
  the water first entered the tube and progressively lighter as
  it nears the end of the tube. The color is actually a shinny 
  copper color! There's also a similar color at the water line 
  on the collection tray. I do not know what this residue is, 
  but no question it means the output water was NOT pure. I 
  also don't know what kind of metal was used in soldering
  the many different pieces of metal in the complex unit. 

  Given that my last distiller clearly appeared to have 
  aluminum collection tubing, my feeling is that I don't 
  have the time, resources, or inclination to hunt and 
  peck for safe distillers. Moreover, if you purchase 
  distilled water, you can't know what the distillation
  system used by the manufacturer is made of. The highly 
  aggressive nature of distilled water (ie, it's tendency 
  to attract metals) means any leechable metals in the
  system that come in contact with the water may pollute 
  the water and thereby defeat the distillation process. 
  With that in mind, I think for me the default decision 
  is use spring water and simple carbon-filtered tap water.

  Copper & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=v92ojv8btt8ioq46dlpfkrb1e45nrhblt0%404ax.com

  Aluminum & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com

  Iron & Alzheimer's Disease:  
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com

  Mercury & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com


  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm

  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin

  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate 
  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=- 

 

"Ian Goddard" <igoddard@erols.mon> wrote in message
news:2p9ckvgjub3n4c92nglfvm6c73pihq75dg@4ax.com...
> > IAN: Last Friday I distilled three gallons with my new 1600
> > Water Wise model. It was more labor intensive than the unit
> > I had before, which was very similar to the table-top units
> > from http://waterwise.com (it looked just like model 4000).
>
>
>   UPDATE: I'm returning the model 1600 that I just purchased.
>   At least for the unit I received, there's a serious problem.
>   I purchased a long tube (about three-feet long) that runs to
>   a three-gallon collection tank. I just noticed that along the
>   path that the distilled water ran from the unit into the tank
>   there is a copper(!!) colored residue that is very dark where
>   the water first entered the tube and progressively lighter as
>   it nears the end of the tube. The color is actually a shinny
>   copper color! There's also a similar color at the water line
>   on the collection tray. I do not know what this residue is,
>   but no question it means the output water was NOT pure. I
>   also don't know what kind of metal was used in soldering
>   the many different pieces of metal in the complex unit.
>
>   Given that my last distiller clearly appeared to have
>   aluminum collection tubing, my feeling is that I don't
>   have the time, resources, or inclination to hunt and
>   peck for safe distillers. Moreover, if you purchase
>   distilled water, you can't know what the distillation
>   system used by the manufacturer is made of. The highly
>   aggressive nature of distilled water (ie, it's tendency
>   to attract metals) means any leechable metals in the
>   system that come in contact with the water may pollute
>   the water and thereby defeat the distillation process.
>   With that in mind, I think for me the default decision
>   is use spring water and simple carbon-filtered tap water.

Thanks for this update on your distiller. I (and,
I'm sure, others) appreciate this kind of informa-
tion. I just received a test kit for supplying the
water testing company with specimens of our
water. I checked the specs on our house (in Maine).
Our well is a 340 foot deep artesian well. I have
my fingers crossed that the water is healthful (it
certainly tastes good). Of course, the quality of
the water from the tap depends on our plumbing
also. The plumbing (at least what I can see of it)
is copper. I notice corrosion on the outside of
the pipes. I hope copper plumbing is safe. I've
been drinking this water almost exclusively for
12 years, and I've noticed a little "cognitive slip-
page". Of course, that could be due to my reck-
less consumption of tofu. : o ) Slake your thirst
with appropriate caution, huh? If our water is
really healthful, maybe I'll bottle and sell it: "Kit-
tery Point Spring Water: It keeps you smart".

George

>   Copper & Alzheimer's Disease:
>
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=v92ojv8btt8ioq46dlpfkrb1e45nrhblt0%404ax.com
>
>   Aluminum & Alzheimer's Disease:
>
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
>
>   Iron & Alzheimer's Disease:
>
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
>
>   Mercury & Alzheimer's Disease:
> http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
>
>
>   http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
>
>   "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
>
>   Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
>   reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate
>   that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
>   ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
>   August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=-
>
>

Everyone seems concerned about limiting their copper intake by drinking distilled
water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake. When the
body is overloaded by any particular chemical, either organic or inorganic, it can
result in problems which may be compounded by a second chemical. Take the once
popular solvent carbon tetrachloride use by dry cleaners. If you drank alcohol
after using this solvent you could die very soon after due to the interaction with
the alcohol. The same quanity of alcohol without exposure to the solvent would be
harmless. Which of the two is it better to avoid exposure to?
Thats an extreme example but going back to copper, its not just in water, its in
many foods. Most of the common nuts like pecans, hazel nuts and walnuts contains
1-1.3 mg Cu per 100g and brazil nuts contain up to 2.3 mg per 100g.
Considering copper consumption is unavoidable and in fact a requirement for
metabolism of iron, development of red blood cells plus a host of other things, its
seems to me that its the cholesterol which is the problem.




Ian Goddard wrote:

> Copper link to Alzheimer's disease:
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
>
> The abstract:
> http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
>
> Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
>
> Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
> learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease
>
> [authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]
>
> Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
> and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
> both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
> Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
> copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
> (0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
> beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
> structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
> retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
> task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
> detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
> conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
> influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
> interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
> high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
> in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
> Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
> AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
> for studying AD.
>
> >  Also see:
> >
> >  Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
> >
> >  Iron and Alzheimer's disease:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
> >
> >  Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
> >
> >
> >  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
> >
> >  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
> >
> >  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
> >  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate
> >  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
> >  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
> >  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=-
> >
> >

rsymes <rsymes@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F5402CD.7B6B1F64@dodo.com.au>...
> Everyone seems concerned about limiting their copper intake by drinking distilled
> water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake.

Cholesterol is a substance one's body makes for itself. Just cutting
down or eliminating sources of cholesterol in one's food will not
necessarily produce low levels in one's body.



 When the
> body is overloaded by any particular chemical, either organic or inorganic, it can
> result in problems which may be compounded by a second chemical. Take the once
> popular solvent carbon tetrachloride use by dry cleaners. If you drank alcohol
> after using this solvent you could die very soon after due to the interaction with
> the alcohol. The same quanity of alcohol without exposure to the solvent would be
> harmless. Which of the two is it better to avoid exposure to?
> Thats an extreme example but going back to copper, its not just in water, its in
> many foods. Most of the common nuts like pecans, hazel nuts and walnuts contains
> 1-1.3 mg Cu per 100g and brazil nuts contain up to 2.3 mg per 100g.
> Considering copper consumption is unavoidable and in fact a requirement for
> metabolism of iron, development of red blood cells plus a host of other things, its
> seems to me that its the cholesterol which is the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ian Goddard wrote:
> 
> > Copper link to Alzheimer's disease:
> > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
> >
> > The abstract:
> > http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
> >
> > Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
> >
> > Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
> > learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease
> >
> > [authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]
> >
> > Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
> > and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
> > both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
> > Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
> > copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
> > (0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
> > beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
> > structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
> > retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
> > task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
> > detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
> > conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
> > influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
> > interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
> > high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
> > in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
> > Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
> > AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
> > for studying AD.
> >
> > >  Also see:
> > >
> > >  Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
> > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
> > >
> > >  Iron and Alzheimer's disease:
> > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
> > >
> > >  Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
> > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
> > >
> > >
> > >  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
> > >
> > >  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
> > >
> > >  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
> > >  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate
> > >  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
> > >  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
> > >  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=-
> > >
> > >

tintinet wrote:

> rsymes <rsymes@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F5402CD.7B6B1F64@dodo.com.au>...
> > Everyone seems concerned about limiting their copper intake by drinking distilled
> > water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake.
>
> Cholesterol is a substance one's body makes for itself. Just cutting
> down or eliminating sources of cholesterol in one's food will not
> necessarily produce low levels in one's body.
>

There are two forms of cholesterol one of which is beneficial in the human body and the
other which is dangerous. The dangerous type accumulates in the body through consumption
of animal products. If a person eats large quatities of fatty foods then they will put
themselves at risk of high cholesterol.
I'm not saying the simple answer is to watch what we eat since high cholesterol level can
result from other factors but poor diet is a leading cause.



>
>  When the
> > body is overloaded by any particular chemical, either organic or inorganic, it can
> > result in problems which may be compounded by a second chemical. Take the once
> > popular solvent carbon tetrachloride use by dry cleaners. If you drank alcohol
> > after using this solvent you could die very soon after due to the interaction with
> > the alcohol. The same quanity of alcohol without exposure to the solvent would be
> > harmless. Which of the two is it better to avoid exposure to?
> > Thats an extreme example but going back to copper, its not just in water, its in
> > many foods. Most of the common nuts like pecans, hazel nuts and walnuts contains
> > 1-1.3 mg Cu per 100g and brazil nuts contain up to 2.3 mg per 100g.
> > Considering copper consumption is unavoidable and in fact a requirement for
> > metabolism of iron, development of red blood cells plus a host of other things, its
> > seems to me that its the cholesterol which is the problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian Goddard wrote:
> >
> > > Copper link to Alzheimer's disease:
> > > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
> > >
> > > The abstract:
> > > http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
> > >
> > > Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
> > >
> > > Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
> > > learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease
> > >
> > > [authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]
> > >
> > > Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
> > > and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
> > > both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
> > > Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
> > > copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
> > > (0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
> > > beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
> > > structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
> > > retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
> > > task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
> > > detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
> > > conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
> > > influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
> > > interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
> > > high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
> > > in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
> > > Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
> > > AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
> > > for studying AD.
> > >
> > > >  Also see:
> > > >
> > > >  Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
> > > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
> > > >
> > > >  Iron and Alzheimer's disease:
> > > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
> > > >
> > > >  Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
> > > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
> > > >
> > > >  "To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
> > > >
> > > >  Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
> > > >  reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate
> > > >  that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
> > > >  ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
> > > >  August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=-
> > > >
> > > >