Thread View: sci.logic
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Started by David Gudeman
Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:05
Re: recursive definitions and paradoxes
Author: David Gudeman
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:05
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:05
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In article <1992Nov21.230530.117800@Cookie.secapl.com> Frank Adams writes: ]In article <26788@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gudeman@cs.arizona.edu (David Gudeman) writes: ]>I propose for discussion the ]> ]> Axiom of Definition: (X := E /\ Exist! X.X=E) => X = E ]> ]>where "Exist! x" means "there exists a unique x such that". ] ]Actually, no. Unless I am much mistaken, this kind of definition is ]eliminable. If we have a definition X := E, we can rewrite a wff of ]the form P(X) as (All X.((Ex! X.X=E) => X=E) => P(X)). I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that the definition plus the axiom is eliminable, then of course you are right. It is the purpose of the axiom to make the definition "safe", which makes it eliminable (although I think that your rewrite is wrong. I believe it should be (All X.((Ex! X.X=E) & (X=E)) => P(X)) since the existence of a unique solution does not by itself imply that some free X _is_ the solution). If you mean that the definition alone, with the naive assumption that X:=E => X=E is eliminable, then you are mistaken. This should be obvious since naive definitions produce an inconsistent logic. In any case, I think there is too much emphasis being paid to the notion of definitions, which notion is really "eliminable" from my argument. In fact for Russell's paradox (the purported motivation for all of this) the notion of definition only applies in a round-about sense. I really started thinking in terms of recursive definitions when I was trying to figure out what would be the minimal machinery that one would need to add to the propositional calculus to make the liar's paradox possible. Clearly recursive definitions are enough since L := ~L produces the paradox. This is not quite identical to the original paradox though. To state it closer to its traditional form, you need a way to talk about propsitions of the language in the language. Then you can express it something like L := "~M(L)" where M is the meaning function that produces the truth value of a proposition (it basically strips off the quotes). So M(L) = ~M(L). This pair of examples convinced me that this business of language/meta-language confusion is bogus. You don't really need to have quoted propositions in order to express the paradox, and if you do have quoted propositions, you still need some form of circularity. Of course, you don't really need definitions as such. You could use something like a reflexive pronoun to get a sentence even closer to the traditional form of the paradox. Define "P(self)" to represent the proposition P(self)[self:="P(self)"]. That is, 'self' refers to the inermost quoted phrase of which it is a part. Then "~self" is a more traditional expression of the paradox, and one which does not involve any explicit definitions or recursion. But there is still an implicit recursion due to the definition of 'self'. Many of the traditional paradoxes are usually expressed _without_ explicit definitions, so I am not claiming that explicit definitions are critical to the paradox. But in all cases, the paradox can be easily expressed in an otherwise consistent logic with a recursive definition added. It is in this sense that I say the paradoxes are "caused" by recursion. Maybe it would be better to say that all the paradoxes are caused by some error that is equivalent to the uncritical use of a recursive definition. I don't think the same can be said for any of the other proposed "causes" of the paradoxes. Naive comprehension only applies to the set theoretic paradoxes. Impredicativeness only applies to paradoxes that involve quantification. Language/meta-language confusion only applies to the so-called linguistic paradoxes. Type violation only applies to paradoxes that involve typed quantities (and not to the "linguistic" paradoxes). -- David Gudeman gudeman@cs.arizona.edu
Re: recursive definitions and paradoxes
Author: Frank Adams
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:33
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:33
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In article <26922@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gudeman@cs.arizona.edu (David Gudeman) writes: >In article <1992Nov21.230530.117800@Cookie.secapl.com> Frank Adams writes: >]In article <26788@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gudeman@cs.arizona.edu (David Gudeman) writes: >]>I propose for discussion the >]> >]> Axiom of Definition: (X := E /\ Exist! X.X=E) => X = E >]> >]>where "Exist! x" means "there exists a unique x such that". >] >]Actually, no. Unless I am much mistaken, this kind of definition is >]eliminable. If we have a definition X := E, we can rewrite a wff of >]the form P(X) as (All X.((Ex! X.X=E) => X=E) => P(X)). > >I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that the definition plus the >axiom is eliminable, then of course you are right. (I am leaving out the discussion of exactly how to eliminate the definition; it suffices that we agree it is eliminable.) In my previous article, I quoted: > And by adding some of the well-known machinery >from recursion theory to prove Exist!... you could also talk about a lot >of self-containing sets. Wouldn't this theory be much more powerful >than ZF? Perhaps I misunderstood; I though David was asserting that his definitions and axiom thereof would make a theory much more powerful than ZF. If they are eliminable, they don't. So I must have misinterpreted "the well-known machinery from recursion theory". I think I know recursion theory fairly well, and I don't know just what is being referred to here. Thus I have to ask David to explicate just exactly what machinery he wishes to import.
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