Thread View: sci.math.stat
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Started by Edward J. Huff
Thu, 03 Sep 1992 01:11
How many samples?
Author: Edward J. Huff
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 01:11
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 01:11
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I am involved in development of a new measurement technique and am planning to do some statistical analysis. Will the statistics experts out there please tell me if I am making any serious mistakes, suggest ways to extract more information from the data, or point me toward the proper books or software to use? Please send E-mail replies, I will summarize if there is interest. Thanks. We measure a quantity which should be related to the mass of an object. We want to calculate statistics which indicate how precise the measurement is. We have a population of objects which is about 90% pure. We can repeat the measurement a limited number of times on the same object. We want to take a sample of measurements, throw out the measurements of impurity objects, and calculate the average and standard deviation for the pure objects. What critera should be used to throw out impurities? How many samples are needed for routine measurements? How many samples are needed before this question can be answered the first time? The purity might not be known in advance. How many measurements must be made to conclude that either the population is not pure at all, so that a measurement is meaningless, or that it is reasonably pure? In a related experiment, we have a mixture of two objects of different masses, say 40% of each, with 10% impurities. We want to take a sample of measurements and classify each as object A, B, or impurity, and calculate an average and standard deviation for A and B. When the mass of A gets close to that of B, so that the tails overlap seriously, what is the proper way of calculating averages for the two distributions? If these questions are answered in some standard text, please recommend one which is slanted toward this sort of problem. -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 Posted from the new Mac NewsWatcher 1.3d5
Question on ratio estimate
Author: Jie Wang
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 03:00
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 03:00
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Hi, there, could someone out there help me with the following
ratio estimate problem ? Any comments and/or references are
appreciated. Now the problem:
Suppose {X(i)} and {Y(i)} are i.i.d. sequences respectively, but
X(i) and Y(i) may be correlated. Let m(x) and m(y) be the expected
values of X(i) and Y(i) repectively. We would like to estimate
m(x)
R = ----. We know that
m(y)
^ [ sum_1_to_n X(i) ] / n
R(n) = -----------------------
[ sum_1_to_n Y(i) ] / n
is a consistent but biased estimator for R. Does anyone know of
any RIGOROUS treatment on the variance of this estimator ?
Particularly, I am interested in some sufficient conditions of X(i),Y(i),
that imply
^
lim_n_to_infinity n var( R(n) )
E(X**2) E(Y**2) E(X*Y)
= R**2 { ------- + ------- - 2--------- }.
m(x)**2 m(y)**2 m(x)*m(y)
Comments on more general nonlinear estimator are also welcome.
Thanks a lot.
--J. Wang
Re: Question on ratio estimate
Author: T. Scott Thompson
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 04:39
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 04:39
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wangj@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jie Wang ) writes:
>Hi, there, could someone out there help me with the following
>ratio estimate problem ? Any comments and/or references are
>appreciated. Now the problem:
>Suppose {X(i)} and {Y(i)} are i.i.d. sequences respectively, but
>X(i) and Y(i) may be correlated. Let m(x) and m(y) be the expected
>values of X(i) and Y(i) repectively. We would like to estimate
> m(x)
> R = ----. We know that
> m(y)
> ^ [ sum_1_to_n X(i) ] / n
> R(n) = -----------------------
> [ sum_1_to_n Y(i) ] / n
>is a consistent but biased estimator for R. Does anyone know of
>any RIGOROUS treatment on the variance of this estimator ?
>Particularly, I am interested in some sufficient conditions of X(i),Y(i),
>that imply
> ^
>lim_n_to_infinity n var( R(n) )
> E(X**2) E(Y**2) E(X*Y)
>= R**2 { ------- + ------- - 2--------- }.
> m(x)**2 m(y)**2 m(x)*m(y)
You can derive a closely related approximation using the "delta
method." Let {Z_i} be a sequence of i.i.d. random Kx1 vectors, with
mean vector m, and finite covariance matrix V. Let Zbar(n) be the
vector of sample means of the first n elements of the {Z_i} sequence.
Let g map K-dimensional space to J-dimensional space with J .LE. K,
and let g be continuously differentiable on a neighborhood of m with G
= g'(m). Then by a Taylor expansion
n^(1/2)*[ g(Zbar(n)) - g(m) ] = G*d + e
where d = n^(1/2)[ Zbar(n) - m ] and e = o[ n^(-1/2)*|d| ].
By standard central limit theory d ---> Normal( 0, V ). This in turn
implies that e --> 0 in probability and G*d ---> Normal(0,W), where
W = G*V*transpose(G)
Thus n^(1/2)* [ g(Zbar(n)) - g(m) ] ---> Normal(0,W).
To apply this to your problem let K = 2, J = 1 and set
Z_i = (X_i,Y_i). Set
g(z) = z(1) / z(2) so that G = [ 1 / m(y), -m(x)/m(y)^2 ].
[Implicitly m(y) != 0.] Then
W = Var(X)/m(Y)^2 + Var(Y)*m(x)^2/m(y)^4 - 2*Cov(X,Y)*m(x)/m(y)^3
= R^2 * [ Var(X)/m(x)^2 + Var(Y)/m(y)^2 - 2*Cov(X,Y)/(m(x)*m(y)) ]
which coincides (almost) with your formula. (You incorrectly used the
absolute second moments of X and Y instead of the variances and
covariances.)
Applying the preceeding argument gives:
^
(*) n^(1/2)* [ R(n) - R ] ---> Normal( 0, W ) in distribution
as n -> infinity. Most likely this is the result that you really
want. It is all that is needed for construction of an asymptotically
valid confidence interval or test statistic, for example.
The result that you asked for, namely
^
n Var( R(n) ) ---> W as n -> infinity
does not follow from (*) unless you make stronger assumptions. Indeed
(*) will be true in cases where the variance of your estimator does
not exist for any value of n.
I have said enough. Who wants to fill in the rest?
--
T. Scott Thompson email: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics phone: (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota fax: (612) 624-0209
Re: Question on ratio estimate
Author: Michael P. Perrone
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 20:37
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 20:37
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T. Scott Thompson writes: >To apply this to your problem let K = 2, J = 1 and set >Z_i = (X_i,Y_i). Set > > g(z) = z(1) / z(2) so that G = [ 1 / m(y), -m(x)/m(y)^2 ]. but i thought that z(1) and z(2) may be correlated thus the i.i.d. assumption may be bad in general. if the z(1) and z(2) are i.i.d. then g(z) approaches a lorentzian distribution as n --> infinity since the z(1) and z(2) both approach gaussian distributions. - Michael
Re: Question on ratio estimate
Author: T. Scott Thompson
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 19:16
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 19:16
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mpp@cs.brown.edu (Michael P. Perrone) writes: >T. Scott Thompson writes: >>To apply this to your problem let K = 2, J = 1 and set >>Z_i = (X_i,Y_i). Set >> >> g(z) = z(1) / z(2) so that G = [ 1 / m(y), -m(x)/m(y)^2 ]. >but i thought that z(1) and z(2) may be correlated >thus the i.i.d. assumption may be bad in general. You misunderstood my assumption. I was assuming that the _vectors_ Z_i are i.i.d. This does not mean that Z_i(1) and Z_i(2) are independent from each other, nor that they are identically distributed. It means that the vector Z_i is independent from Z_j and that these vectors have the same distribution for i != j. (And likewise for any finite collection of indices.) -- T. Scott Thompson email: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu Department of Economics phone: (612) 625-0119 University of Minnesota fax: (612) 624-0209
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