Thread View: sci.med.pharmacy
10 messages
10 total messages
Started by fred
Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:00
AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: fred
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:00
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More slapstick comedy from Geneva.
After bizillions of dollars, millions of deaths and
almost two decades of non-stop junk science focused
on reverse-engineering theories from drug "treatments" ...
and this is what they send back home:
�AIDS vaccine suffered a serious setback Thursday when
tests in adult monkeys showed it may actually cause
the disease it was meant to prevent...�
Alas, Ruprecht's Theorum:
�There is a mini-Darwinian experiment going on in every single
vaccinated animal,� she said. �In the end, we have disease.�
Oops!
Could it be possible that HIV actually arose
from the vaccination experiments for polio vaccines
in the Congo more than 3 decades ago?
Why, yes Virginia, I suppose the Congo would be
a fine place for modern science.
fred
=========
AIDS Vaccine Suffers Big Setback
By DANIEL Q. HANEY
.c The Associated Press
GENEVA (AP) - A weakened virus that many consider the best hope
for an AIDS vaccine suffered a serious setback Thursday when
tests in adult monkeys showed it may actually cause the disease
it was meant to prevent.
The approach - what scientists call a live, attenuated vaccine
- initially protects monkeys from getting infected with the
simian version of HIV.
However, the new work shows that over time, the weakened virus
can mutate into a lethal form that causes the disease it was
meant to prevent.
�To me, this fortifies that we are not ready to go into humans
with a live attenuated vaccine,�said Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of
the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
Dr. Robert Gallo of the University of Maryland said that if the
live attenuated approach fails, it means AIDS vaccine
development is no further ahead than it was in 1984, when
little was known about the epidemic�s cause.
�We have no guarantee that we will ever have a vaccine,� he
said.
Creating an AIDS vaccine is a top priority of researchers but
also an extraordinarily difficult task because the AIDS virus
attacks parts of the immune system that are ordinarily called
into action by effective vaccines.
One idea is to give people a weakened version of HIV - one that
would set up a harmless low-grade infection but keep immune
defenses on high alert against the real thing. People who carry
genetically crippled HIV that arose through random mutations do
not seem to get sick.
Because of the obvious hazards of testing even a weakened AIDS
virus on people, scientists at the New England Regional Primate
Center in Southboro, Mass., created a mirror version using the
closely related simian immune deficiency virus, SIV.
When first tested on macaque monkeys, they found that the
vaccine seemed to completely protect them from what should have
been lethal doses of the full-strength virus.
However, in 1995, Dr. Ruth Ruprecht of Dana Farber Cancer
Institute in Boston found that the weakened virus eventually
triggered the simian version of AIDS when given to baby
monkeys.
At the 12th World AIDS Conference, Ruprecht reported her new
research shows that in time, the vaccine also causes AIDS in
adult monkeys.
�What we saw in infants is a fast-forward version of what could
happen in adults with an attenuated vaccine,�she said.
The version of the vaccine she tested was weakened by deleting
parts of three genes that were thought necessary for it to
cause illness.
Los Angeles AIDS specialist Charles Farthing, who wants to test
a live attenuated HIV vaccine in people, called Ruprecht�s
latest discovery �more concerning� than her earlier work in
infants. Still, he said, monkey AIDS is an even more virulent
disease than human AIDS, and the human vaccine would be
weakened even more than the monkey version she tested.
�Looking at SIV in monkeys gives you a misleading impression of
what would happen in human beings,� he said. �This is not
safety data for humans.�
Ruprecht vaccinated 15 adult monkeys over the past three to
five years. One has died of AIDS. Three others have high levels
of the HIV virus in their blood.
Among nine infant monkeys vaccinated, six have developed AIDS
and five of them are dead. The other three have pre-AIDS
abnormalities.
She said the weakened virus mutates so rapidly that strains
eventually emerge that are able to thrive.
�There is a mini-Darwinian experiment going on in every single
vaccinated animal,� she said. �In the end, we have disease.�
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Wolfgang Resch
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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> > Could it be possible that HIV actually arose > from the vaccination experiments for polio vaccines > in the Congo more than 3 decades ago? maybe you should brush up on your virology. polio is a picorna virus with an entirely different organization from HIV. it does not do reverse transcription, its genome is organized totally different, it is not an enveloped virus, its whole replication happens in the cytoplasm and the endoplasmic reticulum. the only thing they have in common is the use of +stranded RNA as genome. polio and HIV are entirely different viruses. you could just as well claim that those evil fireants arose from sheep cloning experiments. you are such a good scientist, so i'm assuming you just got carried away trying to kick somebody. next time try thinking first. wolfgang
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Roger
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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True that there is such a thing as a live attenuated virus vaccine, but I don't know if any have EVER worked. The best method is to make a "dead whole virus" vaccine. This would be done by irradiating the virus with UV radiation and is the common method for many vaccines. Until they do this for HIV instead of messing around with all the experimental designer vaccines, they are not making an honest effort. fred wrote: > AIDS Vaccine Suffers Big Setback > By DANIEL Q. HANEY > > .c The Associated Press > > GENEVA (AP) - A weakened virus that many consider the best hope > for an AIDS vaccine suffered a serious setback Thursday when > tests in adult monkeys showed it may actually cause the disease > it was meant to prevent.
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Roger
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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Actually that was kind of far fetched, wasn't it? hehe But please remember that we have the technology, and have for many years, to MAKE retrovirus. Since HIV is the only retrovirus that "mutates" on its own, I would question whether it is a naturally occurring virus. Mind you, I am even attempting to guess who made it, or whether the release of it was accidental or not. Our ability to produce RVs would seem very interesting to all of those governments that research biological warfare and it would be crazy to think that such people would overlook that type of technology. Wolfgang Resch wrote: > > > > Could it be possible that HIV actually arose > > from the vaccination experiments for polio vaccines > > in the Congo more than 3 decades ago? > > maybe you should brush up on your virology. polio is a picorna virus with > an entirely different organization from HIV. > it does not do reverse transcription, its genome is organized totally > different, it is not an enveloped virus, its whole replication happens in > the cytoplasm and the endoplasmic reticulum. the only thing they have in > common is the use of +stranded RNA as genome. > polio and HIV are entirely different viruses. you could just as well claim > that those evil fireants arose from sheep cloning experiments. > > you are such a good scientist, so i'm assuming you just got carried away > trying to kick somebody. next time try thinking first. > > wolfgang -- Please note that in order to send a message to me using the reply feature you must edit the To: line , deleting the "REMOVE_TO_REPLY" portion. For those that have a browser that shows it, there is a little HTML mailto: tag at the bottom of the screen to make things easier. I also filter out all messages that have the words "free" or "money" in the subject line.
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: David Canzi
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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In article <359D0F53.EA32DE15@pacbell.net>, Roger <syncroREMOVE_TO_REPLY@pacbell.net> wrote: >... we have the technology, and have for many years, to MAKE retrovirus. >Since HIV is the only retrovirus that "mutates" on its own, I would question >whether it is a naturally occurring virus. CMV also mutates. (I know this from experience.) -- David Canzi "No eternal reward can forgive us now for wasting the dawn." -- The Doors
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Wolfgang Resch
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Roger wrote: > True that there is such a thing as a live attenuated virus vaccine, but > I don't know if any have EVER worked. The best method is to make a "dead > whole virus" vaccine. This would be done by irradiating the virus with > UV radiation and is the common method for many vaccines. Until they do > this for HIV instead of messing around with all the experimental > designer vaccines, they are not making an honest effort. actually the most successful vacines are live attenuated viruses (polio, smallpox, chicken pox and measles). i believe dead HIV has been tested as vaccine (don't remember ref) and has shown weak protection. wolfgang
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Wolfgang Resch
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Roger wrote: > Actually that was kind of far fetched, wasn't it? hehe But please remember > that we have the technology, and have for many years, to MAKE retrovirus. > Since HIV is the only retrovirus that "mutates" on its own, I would question > whether it is a naturally occurring virus. Mind you, I am even attempting to > guess who made it, or whether the release of it was accidental or not. Our > ability to produce RVs would seem very interesting to all of those governments > that research biological warfare and it would be crazy to think that such > people would overlook that type of technology. i don't know where this idea comes from, but HIV is definetely not the only retrovirus that has a high mutation frequency. Reverse transcriptase is fairly inacurate in all retroviruses (all i know of, that is...), which is one source of variability. wolfgang
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Roger
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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CMV is not a retro virus. David Canzi wrote: > In article <359D0F53.EA32DE15@pacbell.net>, > Roger <syncroREMOVE_TO_REPLY@pacbell.net> wrote: > >... we have the technology, and have for many years, to MAKE retrovirus. > >Since HIV is the only retrovirus that "mutates" on its own, I would question > >whether it is a naturally occurring virus. > > CMV also mutates. (I know this from experience.) > -- > David Canzi "No eternal reward can forgive us now for > wasting the dawn." -- The Doors -- Please note that in order to send a message to me using the reply feature you must edit the To: line , deleting the "REMOVE_TO_REPLY" portion. For those that have a browser that shows it, there is a little HTML mailto: tag at the bottom of the screen to make things easier. I also filter out all messages that have the words "free" or "money" in the subject line.
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Roger
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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I understand what you are saying, however I wasn't refering to the Reverse Transcriptase. The mutations created by natural replication of HIV are unique from other retrovirus. The point about the Reverse Transcriptase is a very good one though. :>) Love and light, Wolfgang Resch wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Roger wrote: > > > Actually that was kind of far fetched, wasn't it? hehe But please remember > > that we have the technology, and have for many years, to MAKE retrovirus. > > Since HIV is the only retrovirus that "mutates" on its own, I would question > > whether it is a naturally occurring virus. Mind you, I am even attempting to > > guess who made it, or whether the release of it was accidental or not. Our > > ability to produce RVs would seem very interesting to all of those governments > > that research biological warfare and it would be crazy to think that such > > people would overlook that type of technology. > > i don't know where this idea comes from, but HIV is definetely not the > only retrovirus that has a high mutation frequency. Reverse transcriptase > is fairly inacurate in all retroviruses (all i know of, that is...), which > is one source of variability. > > wolfgang
Re: AIDS VACCINE CAUSES AIDS
Author: Lawrence King
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:00
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Roger wrote: > > I understand what you are saying, however I wasn't refering to the Reverse > Transcriptase. The mutations created by natural replication of HIV are unique from > other retrovirus. Um, Roger? What do you think Reverse Transcriptase *does*? How else do you think HIV replicates, spontaneous generation?
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