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In article <2630@udenva.UUCP> skajihar@udenva.UUCP ("Lord of Sith" Kajihara) writes:
>A few months ago, there was posted to the net a question regarding a common
>household liquid that did not contain hydrogen.  Although I remember responses
>to such, I do not remember if the author posted his solution.  Could someone
>please repost this or e-mail it to me as there are a few of us here who would
>like to know what the solution was.

	I too missed the original discussion, but after a moments thought...
		
			Carbon TetraChlorice (CCl )?
						 4
	
	If it isn't the answer, it ought to be. 
							RT

I believe that CCl4 isn't very common, and is harder to get hold of all 
the time.

Tried to buy any lately?


-- 

	Michael Sierchio @ MCC Software Technology Program

	UUCP:	ut-sally!im4u!milano!sierchio
	ARPA:	sierchio@mcc.ARPA

	THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED AREN'T NECESSARILY.

> 
> I believe that CCl4 isn't very common, and is harder to get hold of all 
> the time.
> 
> Tried to buy any lately?

In order to spare the net a second go-round of this (it was tiresome
even the first time), I will summarize briefly:

Q: Name a colorless liquid with no hydrogen in its chemical composition
   commonly found around the house.

A: Glass (silicon dioxide).

See, it's a trick.  Glass is the clearly (heh heh, get it?) desired
mass-consumption pop-quiz answer.  A long discussion followed about
whether glass is really a liquid.  I do not have an informed opinion.
The majority of technical postings claimed that glass is not truly a
liquid.

Other answers given were carbon tetrachloride, though (as the above
posting indicates) it's not all that common, and mercury, though it
begs the definition of "colorless".

ENOUGH!

                    *** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI   ***** *****
                 ****** ******  07 Jan 87 [18 Nivose An CXCV]
ken perlow       *****   *****
(312)979-8042     ** ** ** **
ihnp4!ihlpa!gadfly  *** ***

While glass is amorphous and has some fluid and colloid properties,
it is not a liquid.


-- 
	
	Michael Sierchio @ MCC Software Technology Program

	UUCP:	ut-sally!im4u!milano!sierchio
	ARPA:	sierchio@mcc.ARPA

	"WE REVERSE THE RIGHT TO SERVE REFUSE TO ANYONE"

--
> While glass is amorphous and has some fluid and colloid properties,
> it is not a liquid.

I promise never to try to be helpful about old net ramblings again.
I tried to summarize this thing so it could meet a merciful end, and
what happens?  (1) I get mail about not phrasing the question correctly,
(2) I get mail about forgetting the *real* answer--Freon.  I suspect
that the question expected the answer "glass" since these folk quizzes
tend to be very superficial, and it's common folk knowledge (the truth
is another matter) that glass is a liquid.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

                    *** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI   ***** *****
                 ****** ******  09 Jan 87 [20 Nivose An CXCV]
ken perlow       *****   *****
(312)979-8042     ** ** ** **
ihnp4!ihlpa!gadfly  *** ***

In article <2645@ihlpa.UUCP>, gadfly@ihlpa.UUCP (Gadfly) writes:
> In order to spare the net a second go-round of this (it was tiresome
> even the first time), I will summarize briefly:
> 
> Q: Name a colorless liquid with no hydrogen in its chemical composition
>    commonly found around the house.
> 
> etc.

First off, you got the question wrong. It was:

Name a transparent liquid commonly found around the home whose major
constituent is a molecule containing no hydrogen.

When the original poster replied, he said that the answer that he had
in mind is Freon, which is found in refrigeration equipment, and can
sometimes be viewed through a little window. Though it is a gas at
room temperature and pressure, it is a liquid in the guts of the fridge.

Other suggestions included various aqueous solutions such as bleach, which
are mostly water, CCl4, which is no longer commonly found in the home,
glass, which is not a liquid, and mercury, which is not transparent.

After the original poster replied, someone mentioned the little cartridges
that contain N2O and CO2 for whipping cream and making seltzer water.
Nobody came up with any compelling arguments (this is subjective) that
the contents of these cartridges are a liquid or a gas, though my personal
best guess is that the contents are gaseous.

                                              Jean-Joseph Cote

Yes, I suppose glass is a colorless, non-hydrogen-containing liquid.  Still, howmuch of all glass produced is really uncontaminated by hydrogen?  I'm not disput
ing your answer (which I admit is a good one, and never even crossed my mind), 
but I am a bit curious.  Any glassblowers out there?  There was a good article
in National Geographic a few years back, but I don't happen to have it as I sit
here at the terminal...

-- 
                                           
                              Alex Granok 
                              hao!udenva!agranok
                              "Wait a minute.  Strike that.  Reverse it."

   Name a colorless liquid with no hydrogen in its chemical composition
   commonly found around the house.

> Other answers given were carbon tetrachloride, though (as the above
> posting indicates) it's not all that common, and mercury, though it
> begs the definition of "colorless".

  The keyword in this old old riddle, is *around*. If you have Hg around
  the house, you won't find me visiting......

> ENOUGH!
  Agreed!

-- 
Neil McCulloch                             / \
Dangerous Goods Control                   / | \
Alberta Public Safety Services            \ * /
Edmonton   (403) 427-2772                  \_/

[ Hello.  My name is Peabody.  I suppose you know yours.... ]

	As I recall, the best answer I came across was Freon, commonly found
in the guts of the family refrigerator.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab				ihnp4!ptsfa!well!ewhac
The Guy in The Cape				..or..
					well ---\
"Work FOR?  I don't work FOR		dual ----> !unicom!ewhac
anybody.  I'm just having fun."		hplabs -/       ("AE-wack")

>From: gadfly@ihlpa.UUCP (Gadfly)
>> While glass is amorphous and has some fluid and colloid properties,
>> it is not a liquid.

>I promise never to try to be helpful about old net ramblings again.
>I tried to summarize this thing so it could meet a merciful end, and
>what happens?  (1) I get mail about not phrasing the question correctly,
>(2) I get mail about forgetting the *real* answer--Freon.  I suspect
>that the question expected the answer "glass" since these folk quizzes
>tend to be very superficial, and it's common folk knowledge (the truth
is another matter) that glass is a liquid.

>ken perlow   

Sorry to disappoint you Ken, but glasses really are super-cooled liquids.
The reason lies in the lack of the activation energy found in crystalline
materials.  I really do not wish to bore the net with statistical thermo-
dynamics and the like, so I will instead quote from "Nature and Properties
of Engineering Materials" by Zbigniew D. Jastrzebski (Finally a name more
difficult than mine  :-]  ), John Wiley & Sons, NY, 1959.

   X-Ray analyses show that the relative positions of atoms in glasses
   are similar to those of liquids.  This means that there exists among
   the atoms a short-range order, but also a long-range disorder.  Hence
   glasses are generally regarded as supercooled liquids which are unstable
   with respect to their crystalline phases.
   
   ... glasses do not possess definite melting points but soften gradually
   over a wide range of temperatures.

   Glass on cooling from its molten state shows an increase in viscocity,
   thus becoming more and more viscous as the temperature decreases.  On
   further cooling, however, a temperature range is reached at which the 
   glass undergoes a rather sharp change from a viscous to a hard and brittle
   material. [Note, he did not say solid.]  The range of temperature at which
   this change occurs is called the glass transistion temperature, T sub g,
   which is often referred to as a second order transition.  Below the glass
   transition temperature the structure of glass is effectively "frozen,"
   but for the most part, it retains the characteristic structure of a liquid.

This book also presents several graphs showing the viscocity of glass.  These
graphs were taken from several references such as: Corning Glass Works,
"Properties of Selected Commercial Glasses"; Morey, "The Properties of Glass";
and Jones, "Glass." At room temperature, ordinary glass shows a viscocity of
about 10 to the 20th poises.  Water for comparison shows a viscocity of about
0.01 poise at the same temperature.  This shows that while glass is not a
solid at room temperature, it is a lot thicker than molasses on a cold winter
morning.  :-)

To answer several other questions about glass, hydrogen should be present in
only negligible amounts in glass since any hydrogen present in molten glass
would be oxidized by the oxides present to form steam which would vaporize off.
Glass is made in an oxidizing atmosphere as opposed to most metals and alloys
which can contain considerable dissolved hydrogen.  Also, the mirrors in most
large reflecting telescopes use fuzed silica rather than soda-lime glass.  This
material shows a more crystalline structure than ordinary glass; it is similar
to that of quartz (a three dimensional network of silicon atoms bonded through
oxygen links) with the exception that the bond angles are not constant, causing
an irregular arrangement of atoms.  Colloids can be arbitrarily defined as
matter is a fine state of subdivision, larger than atomic and simple molecular
dimensions, but smaller than particles visible to the naked eye.  Glass by 
itself would not qualify, but ruby glass with colloidal particles of gold
dispersed in the glass might.

I hope this treatise will end the discussion on hydrogen-less liquids about
the house.  Glass, freon (at least the varieties most commonly used in household
refrigeration units) and carbon tetrachloride are equally correct answers.
Let's find some new controversy to argue over, this one has been around for
over six months!  Only this time, we should find a subject where computer
science types have a fair chance of understanding the physics.  :-)  Oops!
Sorry about that, folks.  I can hear the mob beating on the door!

                                           Barry L. Ornitz
                                           Eastman Chemicals Division Research
                                           Kingsport, TN

For those who do not read subject lines, all I wanted was the answer to the 
question.  I got that back within a few weeks of posting.  Please do not
continue this discussion as it was originally done because there is a double-
jeopardy clause even on the net.  I am sorry that I even asked the question now.
Apologies to the victims that have to suffer for these unwanted punishements.

     Scott Kajihara

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________

     Me?  A CS major?  Now, I know that either you are joking or LAKking.

      -- Scott Kajihara

      UUCP:  ...!udenva!skajihar

     Disclaimer:  the above quote is not meant to insult computer science types;
                  it is just that I could never become CS and remain my usual
                  insane self (they have always said that we are strange but
                  have charm).
________________________________________________________________________________

   I thought this was the (more or less) universally accetable solution.

   Mitch