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Started by Ed Kaulakis
Sun, 27 Mar 1988 17:58
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
Author: Ed Kaulakis
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1988 17:58
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1988 17:58
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In article <5331@uwmcsd1.UUCP>, markh@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >Time to step in here. You want actual calculations? Well, you'll get them. >You may not like the verdict however. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Oh, you'd be suprised! At the right frequencies Jupiter predominates over >the Earth. > > >Let's put the moon in the calculations anyway for comparison. > >GRAVITATIONAL EFFECTS: >To really do this justice, we should be taking Fourier components of the >gravity fields involved. What you'll find will suprise you. > >1 nano-G = 1 billionth of the acceleration of gravity > (1000-million)th for European readers. > >EMPIRE STATE BUILDING: JUPITER: >1.17 millionth of a nano-G 20 nano-G (DC) >(DC component) AC components exist with a fundamental >No appreciable AC components. frequency of .917 cycles per year. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Only the first several harmonics are > appreciable. > >To calculate the AC components for Jupiter, find the Fourier series of > -1 > 20.9 nano-G * [ 1 + .371 * cos (2 PI t / T) ] >where > T = 1.08 years ( = 1/.917) > >I believe they are Legendre polynomials evaluated at .371 multiplied by 20.9. > >I am assuming that the Empire State Building is a million (metic) tons and >about 1500 miles from where I sit (Milwaukee). > >The DC components alone: Jupiter's is about 20 MILLION times larger. >You'd have to get within SEEING distance of the building for the gravity >fields to be the same. Further, the Empire State building is not in orbit >so it does not have any appreciable frequency components other than DC. > >The MOON: >36000 nano-G (DC). >AC components exist with a fundamental frequency of 12.5 cycles per year. > >I've ignored the effects of the Earth's rotation here. However, there are ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^IT IS TO SNICKER^^^^^^^^ >harmonics with the fundamental requency of 1 cycle per day (thereabouts) that >cause tidal actions on the Earth. > >Clearly, we are talking about response to low frequencies. The real question >to ask is whether or not the fields of Jupiter and the Moon are drowned out >by the noise around the Earth. The calculations involving the Empire State >Building answer that question fairly well. NO. > >... and this is the real issue here : the signal-to-noise ratio. > > >Turn on your radio for that. It is a measuring instrument, after all. >A calculator, by the way, transmits in the FM band (at least the old ones do). > >A historical note : Astrology and Astronomy did not become fully distinguished >until the end of the Middle Ages. Up to that time, both had been studied under >the topic of "Astronomy", which was one of the four major fields in the >Quadrivium. Now guess where the word "Trivia" came from? (A meta-Trivia >question.) > > If I understand this posting correctly, the claim is that rhythmic gravitational forces from distant "plantes" might be a physical basis for astrological claims, which should therefore not be dismissed out of hand. ***I APPLAUD the injection of numbers into this discussion.*** BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not? BTW, there is no such thing as meta-trivia - although there IS ortho, para, and meta-duvia! Cheers, Ed
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
Author: Donald Lindsay
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1988 04:17
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1988 04:17
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In article <3021@gryphon.CTS.COM> edk@gryphon.CTS.COM (Ed Kaulakis) writes (in reply to Mark Hopkins): >BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is >observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is >the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your >calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not? Good point. The tidal forces matter. Actually, a tidal force is just the differential force that results when gravitional forces are not quite equal on the near and far sides of something. So, the tidal force has the same units, and competes on an equal footing with other forces. Tidal force (in nano-g's) across the earth, due to: Venus 0.0 note, Mercury is both smaller and further away Mars 0.0 Jupiter 0.0 note, Saturn is both smaller and further away Moon 224..225 due to elliptical orbit of moon Sun 103 earth's orbit is very near circular Tidal force (in nano-g's) across 2m (a human put lengthwise? outspread arms?), due to: a car 1 assume 1000KG, 3m away. a hill 75 assume 30x30x15m of rock, 30m away mountain 75 assume 2x2x1 km of rock, 2km away earth 630 i.e. the tidal stress from your toes to your nose (if flat on back, ~100 nano-g from spine to sternum) Again, the direct (not tidal) force due the most influential planet: Jupiter 15 to 33 Changes, at most, 18 nano-g per six months. Which is about the tidal stress from top to bottom on a Rubik's Cube. -- Don lindsay@k.gp.cs.cmu.edu CMU Computer Science
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
Author: Ed Kaulakis
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 06:38
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 06:38
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In article <1246@PT.CS.CMU.EDU>, lindsay@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Donald Lindsay) writes: > In article <3021@gryphon.CTS.COM> edk@gryphon.CTS.COM (Ed Kaulakis) writes > (in reply to Mark Hopkins): > > >BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is > >observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is > >the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your > >calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not? > > Good point. The tidal forces matter. AAARGH! **ONLY** THE TIDAL FORCES MATTER!!!!
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
Author: |-|ugh
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 20:04
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 20:04
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How long are you guys going to leave the subject line mis-spelt?
Hugh Dunne | UUCP: ..{cmcl2,ihnp4,seismo!noao}!arizona!amethyst!hdunne
Dept. of Math. | Phone: | ARPA: hdunne@amethyst.ma.arizona.edu
Univ. of Arizona | +1 602 621 4766 | Bitnet: hdunne@arizrvax
Tucson AZ 85721 | +1 602 621 6893 | Internet: hdunne@rvax.ccit.arizona.edu
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