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4 total messages Started by Ed Kaulakis Sun, 27 Mar 1988 17:58
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
#928
Author: Ed Kaulakis
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1988 17:58
88 lines
4134 bytes
In article <5331@uwmcsd1.UUCP>, markh@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes:


>Time to step in here.  You want actual calculations?  Well, you'll get them.
>You may not like the verdict however.  
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Oh, you'd be suprised! At the right frequencies Jupiter predominates over
>the Earth.
>
>
>Let's put the moon in the calculations anyway for comparison.
>
>GRAVITATIONAL EFFECTS:
>To really do this justice, we should be taking Fourier components of the
>gravity fields involved.  What you'll find will suprise you.
>
>1 nano-G = 1 billionth of the acceleration of gravity 
>	   (1000-million)th for European readers.
>
>EMPIRE STATE BUILDING:             JUPITER:
>1.17 millionth of a nano-G         20 nano-G (DC)
>(DC component)                     AC components exist with a fundamental
>No appreciable AC components.      frequency of .917 cycles per year.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      Only the first several harmonics are
>				   appreciable.
>
>To calculate the AC components for Jupiter, find the Fourier series of
>                                                     -1
>        20.9 nano-G * [ 1 + .371 * cos (2 PI t / T) ]
>where
>			    T = 1.08 years ( = 1/.917)
>
>I believe they are Legendre polynomials evaluated at .371 multiplied by 20.9.
>
>I am assuming that the Empire State Building is a million (metic) tons and
>about 1500 miles from where I sit (Milwaukee).
>
>The DC components alone: Jupiter's is about 20 MILLION times larger.
>You'd have to get within SEEING distance of the building for the gravity
>fields to be the same.  Further, the Empire State building is not in orbit
>so it does not have any appreciable frequency components other than DC.
>
>The MOON:
>36000 nano-G (DC).
>AC components exist with a fundamental frequency of 12.5 cycles per year.
>
>I've ignored the effects of the Earth's rotation here.  However, there are
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^IT IS TO SNICKER^^^^^^^^

>harmonics with the fundamental requency of 1 cycle per day (thereabouts) that
>cause tidal actions on the Earth.
>
>Clearly, we are talking about response to low frequencies.  The real question
>to ask is whether or not the fields of Jupiter and the Moon are drowned out
>by the noise around the Earth.  The calculations involving the Empire State
>Building answer that question fairly well.  NO.

>
>... and this is the real issue here : the signal-to-noise ratio.
>
>
>Turn on your radio for that. It is a measuring instrument, after all.
>A calculator, by the way, transmits in the FM band (at least the old ones do).
>
>A historical note : Astrology and Astronomy did not become fully distinguished
>until the end of the Middle Ages.  Up to that time, both had been studied under
>the topic of "Astronomy", which was one of the four major fields in the
>Quadrivium.  Now guess where the word "Trivia" came from?  (A meta-Trivia
>question.)
>
>
If I understand this posting correctly, the claim is that rhythmic 
gravitational forces from distant "plantes" might be a physical basis
for astrological claims, which should therefore not be dismissed out of
hand. 
	***I APPLAUD the injection of numbers into this discussion.***

BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is
observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is 
the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your 
calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not?


BTW, there is no such thing as meta-trivia - although there IS ortho, para,
and meta-duvia!

Cheers,
	Ed
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
#935
Author: Donald Lindsay
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1988 04:17
39 lines
2104 bytes
In article <3021@gryphon.CTS.COM> edk@gryphon.CTS.COM (Ed Kaulakis) writes
(in reply to Mark Hopkins):

>BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is
>observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is 
>the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your 
>calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not?

Good point. The tidal forces matter.

Actually, a tidal force is just the differential force that results when
gravitional forces are not quite equal on the near and far sides of
something. So, the tidal force has the same units, and competes on an equal
footing with other forces.

Tidal force (in nano-g's) across the earth, due to:

Venus    0.0		note, Mercury is both smaller and further away
Mars     0.0 
Jupiter  0.0		note, Saturn is both smaller and further away
Moon	 224..225	due to elliptical orbit of moon
Sun	 103		earth's orbit is very near circular

Tidal force (in nano-g's) across 2m (a human put lengthwise? outspread
arms?), due to:

a car    1		assume 1000KG, 3m away.
a hill   75		assume 30x30x15m of rock, 30m away
mountain 75		assume 2x2x1 km of rock, 2km away
earth    630		i.e. the tidal stress from your toes to your nose
			(if flat on back, ~100 nano-g from spine to sternum)

Again, the direct (not tidal) force due the most influential planet:

Jupiter 15 to 33	Changes, at most, 18 nano-g per six months.

Which is about the tidal stress from top to bottom on a Rubik's Cube.
-- 
	Don		lindsay@k.gp.cs.cmu.edu    CMU Computer Science
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
#964
Author: Ed Kaulakis
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 06:38
13 lines
1055 bytes
In article <1246@PT.CS.CMU.EDU>, lindsay@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Donald Lindsay)
writes:
> In article <3021@gryphon.CTS.COM> edk@gryphon.CTS.COM (Ed Kaulakis) writes
> (in reply to Mark Hopkins):
> 
> >BUT the 1/R^2 field of Jupiter influences the path of the Earth; what is
> >observable by a critter such as you or me on the surface of said Earth is 
> >the somewhat!! weaker 1/R^3 tidal psuedo-force. Does this change your 
> >calculations? If so does it change your conclusions? If not why not?
> 
> Good point. The tidal forces matter.

AAARGH! **ONLY** THE TIDAL FORCES MATTER!!!!
Re: Plantes & actions (was Re: Omni-Americans)
#955
Author: |-|ugh
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1988 20:04
6 lines
911 bytes
How long are you guys going to leave the subject line mis-spelt?

Hugh Dunne        |  UUCP: ..{cmcl2,ihnp4,seismo!noao}!arizona!amethyst!hdunne
Dept. of Math.    |     Phone:      | ARPA:     hdunne@amethyst.ma.arizona.edu
Univ. of Arizona  | +1 602 621 4766 | Bitnet:   hdunne@arizrvax
Tucson AZ  85721  | +1 602 621 6893 | Internet: hdunne@rvax.ccit.arizona.edu
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