🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <Dec.19.17.04.11.1989.25949@athos.rutgers.edu> mmm@cup.portal.com writes:
>1.  IF YOU ACCEPT THE POSSIBILITY CRYONICS MAY WORK, DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE
>TO SIGN UP FOR CRYONIC SUSPENSION JUST ON THE POSSIBILITY IT MIGHT WORK?
>Well, this is just a new form of the old "Should I believe in God?" argument
>(I believe this originates with DesCartes). ...

There is a tendency to assume that a person who does not speak our
language is merely hard of hearing--so we speak more loudly or even
yell.  We think perhaps the person can be made to understand if we use
baby talk.  But of course, the real problem cannot be conquered by
yelling or using simple words, because the person is not hard or
hearing and is not a child.  Similarly, when people fail to agree with
our point of view even after extensive discussion, we tend to think
that the problem is either that we have not used the "magic
words"--that mystical turn or phrase or analogy which will show the
person the error of his ways--or that the person is simply dumb or
brainwashed. But of course, the real problem is that the person is
operating from a different set of basic assumptions and/or value
judgements.  You cannot argue a chocolate-lover into becoming a
vanilla-lover.

Either you like the price of "immortality" and buy the service, or you
don't.  Same as anything else.  THIS IS RIGHTFULLY EACH INDIVIDUAL'S
PERSONAL PEROGATIVE.  Cryonicists should not seek to "convert" others
to cryonics.  Each individual is ultimately completely responsible for
his/her own life.  Adults have the right to reject medical treatment,
food--and cryonics.  On the other hand, cryonicists have the right to
cryonically suspend themselves, just as all humans have the right to
life, liberty and the pursuit of hors d'oeuvres.

Once a cryonicist knows that you have heard the essential facts about cryonics,
he is under no moral or ethical obligation to "make you see the light."  And
once you have been informed of the costs and speculative nature of cryonics,
there is no moral or ethical justification for "protecting you from yourself"
by attempting to dissuade you from arranging to have yourself cryonically
suspended.

Cryonics is NOT salvation.  It is medicine.  If you don't want medical
treatment, you have the right to refuse it (just ask the Christian Scientists).
Hopefully, we'll never have a situation where seeking the medical treatment 
of your choice (or failing to seek it) becomes a crime.

So why am I writing this then?  Because I think that it is important that 
people understand the world-view of a cryonicist--whether they agree with
it or not.  Lack of understanding leads to fear, and fear leads to persecution.

How long you want to live--and what steps you are willing to take to do so--are
none of my business.  All I seek is that non-cryonicists respect my right to
attempt to preserve my life using whatever means I may decide upon that does
not endanger others.

>2.  IT WILL WORK, IF YOU ACCEPT PRESENT TRENDS OF TECHNOLOGY AS DESCRIBED
>IN DREXLER'S BOOK, AND IF NOT WHY NOT?  Okay, I must agree that a significant
>amount of information will be recoverable at some future date from frozen
>brains.  But I still think it will be an experience like electroshock.
>Or worse, possibly much worse.

Why?  On what basis do you conclude that the experience will be unpleasant,
even specifically like electroshock?  And even if so, why is that a reason
for denigrating cryonics?  Perhaps some people don't mind going thru a little
pain in order to significantly extend the length AND OVERALL QUALITY of their
lives.  If you find the possibility of such pain to be unacceptable, that's
fine by me.  It's your life, and your responsibility.  I won't even attempt
to argue you into changing your favorite flavor.

>1.  DO YOU KEEP A DIARY?  ...

Some cryonicists do keep diaries.

Anyone at any time could become an amnesia victim.  So should we all
keep diaries "just in case" this should happen to us?  Imagine that
someone were to walk up to you, prove to your satisfaction that you
were an amnesia victim who had grown up as So-and-so (in spite of the
fact that you continue to have no recollection of your former life),
and hand you So-and-so's diary.  Would you feel satisfied that reading
the diary would resurrect So-and-so's personality in your mind?
Having read diaries, autobiographies and biographies, I seriously
question the utility of keeping a diary for the purpose of personality
resurrection.

Identical twins who grow up together, who share many of the same
experiences, and could probably write each others' diaries, do not
consider themselves to be the same person.  In view of this, I see
many reasons to strongly suspect that more than a diary is required to
resurrect one's personality.

There is the infinitesimal possibility that if I dig a ten foot hole
in my back yard, I will discover tons of buried gold bars.  But the
probability is too low to be worth the effort.  By expending such time
and effort, I may miss out on much better chances.  The time I spend
writing a diary takes away from the time I have for making money
(cryonic suspension is not free, nor is medical care) and from the
time I have for improving my education (knowledge may save my life,
and it often can be lucrative).

>2.  HAVE YOU MADE A DEATH MASK? ...

Why do you assume that I want to look exactly like I do now in the nanotechnicalfuture?

******

If you are really interested in the technical questions of the biochemistry of 
memory, I suggest taking a look at some of the recent issues of Science.  
Although there are still many unanswered questions, some significant basic 
questions are being answered, and the "solution space" (continuum of 
possibilities) is getting ever smaller.  The next decade may very well see 
many startling advances and discoveries.

Recently, some of the key steps in the chemistry of short term and long term
potentiation (of nerve cell synapses) have been discovered.  Proteins, enzymes,
hormones, genes and receptors which are key players in memory at the chemical
level have been identified, and their method of operation is partly understood.
Long term potentiation apparently involves GENETIC CHANGES IN THE NERVE-CELL
NUCLEUS in order to "permanently" change the amount of neurotransmitter and/or
receptors used by the cell at the synapse.

So far, the advance of science is making cryonics appear ever-more feasible.

____"Congress shall have the power to prohibit speech offensive to Congress"____
Alan Lovejoy; alan@pdn; 813-530-2211; AT&T Paradyne: 8550 Ulmerton, Largo, FL.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for AT&T Paradyne.  They do not speak for me. 
Mottos:  << Many are cold, but few are frozen. >>     << Frigido, ergo sum. >>

[Included quotations edited to save space.  --JoSH]