Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #1318Re: Lorentz transformations from the 1st postulate
From: Pentcho Valev
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:45
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:45
50 lines
4773 bytes
4773 bytes
On Feb 16, 2:15 am, YBM <ybm...@nooos.fr> wrote in sci.physics.relativity: > Dono a écrit : > > Yes and no. You can't finish the derivation without the additional > > information (like the second postulate). So, you CANNT derive the > > Lorentz transforms from the first postulate only the way the OP > > climed. This is the main disagreement between me andTom. > > Imagine that one day physicists discover that a photon as a non zero > mass, surely a very small one. Does this kill the importance of > Lorentz invariance? No, c would not match anymore the speed of light, > that's all. Jean-Marc Lévy-Leblond a détruit la rationalité des Einsteiniens en France pour toujours: http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/chronogeometrie.pdf Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond "De la relativite à la chronogeometrie ou: Pour en finir avec le "second postulat" et autres fossiles": "D'autre part, nous savons aujourd'hui que l'invariance de la vitesse de la lumiere est une consequence de la nullite de la masse du photon. Mais, empiriquement, cette masse, aussi faible soit son actuelle borne superieure experimentale, ne peut et ne pourra jamais etre consideree avec certitude comme rigoureusement nulle. Il se pourrait meme que de futures mesures mettent en evidence une masse infime, mais non-nulle, du photon ; la lumiere alors n'irait plus à la "vitesse de la lumiere", ou, plus precisement, la vitesse de la lumiere, desormais variable, ne s'identifierait plus à la vitesse limite invariante. Les procedures operationnelles mises en jeu par le "second postulat" deviendraient caduques ipso facto. La theorie elle-meme en serait-elle invalidee ? Heureusement, il n'en est rien ; mais, pour s'en assurer, il convient de la refonder sur des bases plus solides, et d'ailleurs plus economiques. En verite, le "premier postulat" suffit, a la condition de l'exploiter a fond." http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "This is the point of view from wich I intend to criticize the overemphasized role of the speed of light in the foundations of the special relativity, and to propose an approach to these foundations that dispenses with the hypothesis of the invariance of c....We believe that special relativity at the present time stands as a universal theory discribing the structure of a common space-time arena in which all fundamental processes take place....The evidence of the nonzero mass of the photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the special relativity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity." Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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X-Google-Thread: 10f545,238d1ed7a86ed181 X-Google-Thread: 10b271,503db2f24bae4d65,start X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,503db2f24bae4d65,start X-Google-Thread: 111645,503db2f24bae4d65,start X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,503db2f24bae4d65,start X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gidfa4c1,gid111645,gid1139f8,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!13g2000yql.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,fr.sci.maths Subject: Re: Lorentz transformations from the 1st postulate Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:45:06 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <d57009e2-7122-4653-b2d9-df6516929566@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com> References: <04cb7346-b75f-499c-8ce2-a521709c6e0f@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com> <WHYll.10812$pr6.3352@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com> <c56a9a77-4efa-4305-a4bd-523faa8372e9@r41g2000prr.googlegroups.com> <AE1ml.10829$pr6.10491@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com> <d1f6c59f-86ee-474d-b736-3e120bb3306f@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com> <4998a9b8$0$18837$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <21a3caf2-eb73-4875-95c7-f2f9b243a064@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <4998ab0a$0$5137$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <202d2722-8da9-4885-8209-a4b19fb5ca7b@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <4998b008$0$15799$426a74cc@news.free.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: 79.100.231.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1234770306 12134 127.0.0.1 (16 Feb 2009 07:45:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:45:06 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: 13g2000yql.googlegroups.com; posting-host=79.100.231.46; posting-account=Lz-LbgoAAABPDavKeW-eYeobwLHD_cvQ User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)