Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #5370Re: CARLO ROVELLI ABOUT EINSTEIN 1905 FALSE LIGHT POSTULATE
From: Pentcho Valev
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:52
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:52
180 lines
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12353 bytes
On Mar 17, 6:15Ā pm, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 9:05Ā am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/9403/9403015v1.pdf > > Carlo Rovelli: "However, the formal content of special relativity is > > entirely coded in the Lorentz transformations, which were written by > > Lorentz, not by Einstein, and several years before 1905. What was > > Einstein's contribution? It was to understand the physical meaning of > > the Lorentz transformations. We could say, in a provocative manner, > > that Einstein's contribution to special relativity was the > > interpretation of the theory, not its formalism : the formalism > > already existed. Einstein was so persuasive with his interpretation of > > the Lorentz equations because he did not append an interpretation to > > them: rather, he re-derivedÖ¼them, starting from two "postulates" with > > clear physical meaning (equivalence of inertial observers - > > universality of the speed of light) taken as facts of experience." > > > That the "universality of the speed of light" did not belong to the > > "facts of experience" in 1905 is more than obvious - Carlo Rovelli is > > simply lying. Or perhaps Carlo Rovelli is just confused - he says > > "facts of experience" but in fact sees some theoretical reason behind > > Einstein's 1905 light postulate? Jean Eisenstaedt would disagree: > > > http://ustl1.univ-lille1.fr/culture/publication/lna/detail/lna40/pgs/4_5.pdf > > Jean Eisenstaedt: "Il n'y a alors aucune raison theorique a ce que la > > vitesse de la lumiere ne depende pas de la vitesse de sa source ainsi > > que de celle de l'observateur terrestre ; plus clairement encore, il > > n'y a pas de raison, dans le cadre de la logique des Principia de > > Newton, pour que la lumiere se comporte autrement - quant a sa > > trajectoire - qu'une particule materielle. Il n'y a pas non plus de > > raison pour que la lumiere ne soit pas sensible a la gravitation. > > Bref, pourquoi ne pas appliquer a la lumiere toute la theorie > > newtonienne ? C'est en fait ce que font plusieurs astronomes, > > opticiens, philosophes de la nature a la fin du XVIIIeme siecle. Les > > resultats sont etonnants... et aujourd'hui nouveaux." > > > Translation from French: "Therefore there is no theoretical reason why > > the speed of light should not depend on the speed of the source and > > the speed of the terrestrial observer as well; even more clearly, > > there is no reason, in the framework of the logic of Newton's > > Principia, why light should behave, as far as its trajectory is > > concerned, differently from a material particle. Neither is there any > > reason why light should not be sensible to gravitation. Briefly, why > > don't we apply the whole Newtonian theory to light? In fact, that is > > what many astronomers, opticians, philosophers of nature did by the > > end of 18th century. The results are surprising....and new nowadays." > > Silly Carlo Rovelli does not know the other Einstein's confessions: > > http://www.ws5.com/copy/time2.pdf > Silly Carlo Rovelli: "Einstein believed Maxwell theory as a > fundamental theory and believed the Galilean insight that velocity is > relative and inertial system are equivalent. Merging the two, he found > special relativity. A main result of special relativity is that the > field cannot be regarded as describing vibrations of underlying > matter. The idea of the ether is abandoned, and the field has to be > taken seriously as elementary constituent of reality. This is a major > change from the ontology of Cartesian-Newtonian physics. In the best > description we can give of the physical world, there is a new actor: > the field." > > http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/pdf/files/975547d7-2d00-433a-b7e3-4a09145525ca.pdf > John Stachel: "It is not so well known that there was "another > Einstein," who from 1916 on was skeptical about the CONTINUUM as a > foundational element in physics..." Albert Einstein: "I consider it > entirely possible that physics cannot be based upon the FIELD concept, > that is on CONTINUOUS structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole > castle in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also > nothing of the rest of contemporary physics." > > Some day silly Carlo Rovelli will realize that "discontinuous > structures" impy that Einstein's 1905 light postulate is false whereas > the equation c'=c+v given by Newton's emission theory of light is > true: > > http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768 > "Relativity and Its Roots" by Banesh Hoffmann, Chapter 5. > (I do not have the text in English so I am giving it in French) > Banesh Hoffmann, "La relativite, histoire d'une grande idee", Pour la > Science, Paris, 1999, p. 112: > "De plus, si l'on admet que la lumiere est constituee de particules, > comme Einstein l'avait suggere dans son premier article, 13 semaines > plus tot, le second principe parait absurde: une pierre jetee d'un > train qui roule tres vite fait bien plus de degats que si on la jette > d'un train a l'arret. Or, d'apres Einstein, la vitesse d'une certaine > particule ne serait pas independante du mouvement du corps qui l'emet! > Si nous considerons que la lumiere est composee de particules qui > obeissent aux lois de Newton, ces particules se conformeront a la > relativite newtonienne. Dans ce cas, il n'est pas necessaire de > recourir a la contraction des longueurs, au temps local ou a la > transformation de Lorentz pour expliquer l'echec de l'experience de > Michelson-Morley. Einstein, comme nous l'avons vu, resista cependant a > la tentation d'expliquer ces echecs a l'aide des idees newtoniennes, > simples et familieres. Il introduisit son second postulat, plus ou > moins evident lorsqu'on pensait en termes d'ondes dans l'ether." > > Translation from French: "Moreover, if one admits that light consists > of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his first paper, 13 weeks > earlier, the second principle seems absurd: a stone thrown from a fast- > moving train causes much more damage than one thrown from a train at > rest. Now, according to Einstein, the speed of a particle would not be > independent of the state of motion of the emitting body! If we > consider light as composed of particles that obey Newton's laws, those > particles would conform to Newtonian relativity. In this case, it is > not necessary to resort to length contration, local time and Lorentz > transformations in explaining the negative result of the Michelson- > Morley experiment. Einstein however, as we have seen, resisted the > temptation to explain the negative result in terms of Newton's ideas, > simple and familiar. He introduced his second postulate, more or less > evident as one thinks in terms of waves in aether." Unlike silly Carlo Rovelli, silly Lee Smolin does know the other Einstein's confessions and can even use them against string theorists, the silliest members of Einstein criminal cult: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/sep/einsteins-lonely-path/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C= Lee Smolin: "One way to understand this story is to say that theoretical physics has finally caught up to Einstein. While he was shunned in his Princeton years as he pursued the unified field theory, the Institute for Advanced Study, where he worked, is now filled with theorists who search for new variants of unified field theories. It is indeed a vindication of sorts for Einstein because much of what todayās string theorists do in practice is play with unified theories of the kinds that Einstein and his few colleagues invented. The problem with this picture is that by the end of his life Einstein had to some extent abandoned his search for a unified field theory. He had failed to find a version of the theory that did what was most important to him, which is to explain quantum phenomena in a way that involved neither measurements nor statistics. In his last years he was moving on to something even more radical. He proposed giving up the idea that space and time are continuous. It is fair to say that while the idea that matter is made of atoms goes back at least to the Greeks, few before Einstein questioned the smoothness and continuity of space and time. To one friend, Walter DallenbƤch, he wrote, āThe problem seems to me how one can formulate statements about a discontinuum without calling on a continuum as an aid; the latter should be banned from the theory as a supplementary construction not justified by the essence of the problem, which corresponds to nothing āreal.ā"......Some string theorists will claim to be Einsteinians, and certainly Einstein would have approved of their search for a unification of physics. But here is how Brian Greene, in his most recent book, The Fabric of the Cosmos, describes the state of the field: āEven today, more than three decades after its initial articulation, most string practitioners believe we still donāt have a comprehensive answer to the rudimentary question, What is string theory? Most researchers feel that our current formulation of string theory still lacks the kind of core principle we find at the heart of other major advances.ā....I think a sober assessment is that up till now, almost all of us who work in theoretical physics have failed to live up to Einsteinās legacy. His demand for a coherent theory of principle was uncompromising. It has not been reachedānot by quantum theory, not by special or general relativity, not by anything invented since. Einsteinās moral clarity, his insistence that we should accept nothing less than a theory that gives a completely coherent account of individual phenomena, cannot be followed unless we reject almost all contemporary theoretical physics as insufficient.....Let us be frank and admit that most of us have neither the courage nor the patience to emulate Einstein. We should instead honor Einstein by asking whether we can do anything to ensure that in the future those few who do follow Einsteinās path, who approach science as uncompromisingly as he did, have less risk of unemployment, the sort he suffered at the beginning of his career, and less risk of the marginalization he endured at the end. If we can do this, if we can make the path easier for those few who do follow him, we may make possible a revolution in science that even Einstein failed to achieve." Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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X-Google-Thread: 10f545,9b2ddbc2b16548e9 X-Google-Thread: 10b271,9b2ddbc2b16548e9 X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,9b2ddbc2b16548e9 X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,9b2ddbc2b16548e9 X-Google-Thread: f74ae,9b2ddbc2b16548e9 X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gidfa4c1,gid1139f8,gidf74ae,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,UTF8 Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.maths,sci.astro Subject: Re: CARLO ROVELLI ABOUT EINSTEIN 1905 FALSE LIGHT POSTULATE Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 180 Message-ID: <61e04b96-4282-45e2-90f1-5ec509dc345a@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> References: <1e64a6a3-81e8-4208-a646-ca2b16cd441b@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <e9581edc-ad37-4763-a507-528f1b688eaa@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.91.141.161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1205833951 18776 127.0.0.1 (18 Mar 2008 09:52:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:52:31 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com; posting-host=85.91.141.161; posting-account=Lz-LbgoAAABPDavKeW-eYeobwLHD_cvQ User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)