🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #5657

Re: EINSTEIN: IF I GO DOWN, EVERYTHING GOES DOWN

#5657
From: Pentcho Valev
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:57
107 lines
8023 bytes
On Jan 29, 8:45 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=317&Itemid=81&lecture_id=3576
>
> http://streamer.perimeterinstitute.ca/mediasite/viewer/NoPopupRedirector.aspx?peid=685dc5bb-80f8-4edc-9628-18b53b20c6e0&shouldResize=False
> Albert Einstein: "I consider it entirely possible that physics cannot
> be based upon the field concept, that is on continuous structures.
> Then nothing will remain of my whole castle in the air, including the
> theory of gravitation, but also nothing of the rest of contemporary
> physics."
> John Stachel's comment: "If I go down, everything goes down, ha ha,
> hm, ha ha ha."
>
> And Einsteinians decided to save the money-spinner. Since the speed of
> DISCONTINUOUS light particles obeys the equation c'=c+v given by
> Newton's emission theory of light, John Stachel and his sycophant Jean
> Eisenstaedt discovered that the emission theory and Divine Albert's
> Divine Theory were compatible and then added the former to the latter:
>
> http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i6272.html
> John Stachel: "Not only is the theory [of relativity] compatible with
> an emission theory of radiation, since it implies that the velocity of
> light is always the same relative to its source; the theory also
> requires that radiation transfer mass between an emitter and an
> absorber, reinforcing Einstein's light quantum hypothesis that
> radiation manifests a particulate structure under certain
> circumstances."
>
> http://ustl1.univ-lille1.fr/culture/publication/lna/detail/lna40/pgs/4_5.pdf
> Jean Eisenstaedt: "Il n'y a alors aucune raison theorique a ce que la
> vitesse de la lumiere ne depende pas de la vitesse de sa source ainsi
> que de celle de l'observateur terrestre ; plus clairement encore, il
> n'y a pas de raison, dans le cadre de la logique des Principia de
> Newton, pour que la lumiere se comporte autrement - quant a sa
> trajectoire - qu'une particule materielle. Il n'y a pas non plus de
> raison pour que la lumiere ne soit pas sensible a la gravitation.
> Bref, pourquoi ne pas appliquer a la lumiere toute la theorie
> newtonienne ? C'est en fait ce que font plusieurs astronomes,
> opticiens, philosophes de la nature a la fin du XVIIIeme siecle. Les
> resultats sont etonnants... et aujourd'hui nouveaux."
>
> Translation from French: "Therefore there is no theoretical reason why
> the speed of light should not depend on the speed of the source and
> the speed of the terrestrial observer as well; even more clearly,
> there is no reason, in the framework of the logic of Newton's
> Principia, why light should behave, as far as its trajectory is
> concerned, differently from a material particle. Neither is there any
> reason why light should not be sensible to gravitation. Briefly, why
> don't we apply the whole Newtonian theory to light? In fact, that is
> what many astronomers, opticians, philosophers of nature did by the
> end of 18th century. The results are surprising....and new nowadays."

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/sep/the-masters-mistakes
"Einstein explained the so-called photoelectric effect by asserting
that light, which was known to flow in CONTINUOUS waves, could also be
regarded as sputtering along in DISCRETE PARTICLES, or quanta. Each of
these particles--every quantum of light at a given wavelength--carried
the same amount of energy, he argued, and so dispatched a single
electron with the same energetic kick. Thus did Einstein discover the
photon. He lived to regret it."

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/pdf/files/975547d7-2d00-433a-b7e3-4a09145525ca.pdf
John Stachel: "It is not so well known that there was "another
Einstein," who from 1916 on was skeptical about the CONTINUUM as a
foundational element in physics..." Albert Einstein: "I consider it
entirely possible that physics cannot be based upon the field concept,
that is on CONTINUOUS structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole
castle in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also
nothing of the rest of contemporary physics."

http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
"Relativity and Its Roots" by Banesh Hoffmann, Chapter 5.
(I do not have the text in English so I am giving it in French)
Banesh Hoffmann, "La relativite, histoire d'une grande idee", Pour la
Science, Paris, 1999, p. 112:
"De plus, si l'on admet que la lumiere est constituee de particules,
comme Einstein l'avait suggere dans son premier article, 13 semaines
plus tot, le second principe parait absurde: une pierre jetee d'un
train qui roule tres vite fait bien plus de degats que si on la jette
d'un train a l'arret. Or, d'apres Einstein, la vitesse d'une certaine
particule ne serait pas independante du mouvement du corps qui l'emet!
Si nous considerons que la lumiere est composee de particules qui
obeissent aux lois de Newton, ces particules se conformeront a la
relativite newtonienne. Dans ce cas, il n'est pas necessaire de
recourir a la contraction des longueurs, au temps local ou a la
transformation de Lorentz pour expliquer l'echec de l'experience de
Michelson-Morley. Einstein, comme nous l'avons vu, resista cependant a
la tentation d'expliquer ces echecs a l'aide des idees newtoniennes,
simples et familieres. Il introduisit son second postulat, plus ou
moins evident lorsqu'on pensait en termes d'ondes dans l'ether."

Translation from French: "Moreover, if one admits that light consists
of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his first paper, 13 weeks
earlier, the second principle seems absurd: a stone thrown from a fast-
moving train causes much more damage than one thrown from a train at
rest. Now, according to Einstein, the speed of a particle would not be
independent of the state of motion of the emitting body! If we
consider light as composed of particles that obey Newton's laws, those
particles would conform to Newtonian relativity. In this case, it is
not necessary to resort to length contration, local time and Lorentz
transformations in explaining the negative result of the Michelson-
Morley experiment. Einstein however, as we have seen, resisted the
temptation to explain the negative result in terms of Newton's ideas,
simple and familiar. He introduced his second postulate, more or less
evident as one thinks in terms of waves in aether."

Pentcho Valev
pvalev@yahoo.com
Technical Details
Message-ID: <c4d5b8f5-f2e2-4d63-a81d-4ebe45953999@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
References: <46fefd0f-e2f6-4737-a9c3-f214cfcf608c@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>

Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
X-Google-Thread: 10f545,96b414d3479a3c87
X-Google-Thread: 10b271,96b414d3479a3c87
X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,96b414d3479a3c87
X-Google-Thread: f55d3,96b414d3479a3c87
X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,96b414d3479a3c87
X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gidfa4c1,gidf55d3,gid1139f8,public,usenet
X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, fr.sci.physique, 
 fr.sci.philo, fr.sci.maths
Subject: Re: EINSTEIN: IF I GO DOWN, EVERYTHING GOES DOWN
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 06:57:16 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <c4d5b8f5-f2e2-4d63-a81d-4ebe45953999@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <46fefd0f-e2f6-4737-a9c3-f214cfcf608c@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.91.141.159
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1202137037 15642 127.0.0.1 (4 Feb 2008 14:57:17 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 14:57:17 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com; posting-host=85.91.141.159; 
 posting-account=Lz-LbgoAAABPDavKeW-eYeobwLHD_cvQ
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET 
 CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)