🚀 go-pugleaf

On Jan 23, 1:09 pm, Dieter Heidorn schrieb:
> Koobee Wublee schrieb:

> > Do you have a link to this article in the yearbook of radio and
> > electronics even if it is in German?
>
> I only know where to find the original work - also leider auf Deutsch:
>
> http://www.soso.ch/wissen/hist/SRT/E-1907.pdf

Danke.  It is going to take some time for me to sort through it.

> > Pais declared Poincare to be a vegetable that could not even
> > understand the basics of special relativity.  Pais' account cannot be
> > any accurate.
>
> It's not a question of account but a question of historical sources, for
> instance:

Yes, indeed.  However, the modern historic sources are from the
usurpers like Pais who tried to write his own account of history.
<shrug>

> * the correspondence between Einstein and Grossmann before 1912,
>    when Einstein returned to Zürich and started working with Grossmann,
>
> * the papers published by Einstein before 1912.
> Grossmann has nothing to do with Einstein's works before 1912.

OK, from all the references I have uncovered all have claimed Einstein-
Grossmann cooperation began in 1912.

> > These are not experimentations on deflection but measurements in speed
> > delay or rather gravitational time delay.  <shrug>
>
> These _are_ experiments on light deflection. Please have a look at
>
> http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0510072
>
> pages 33 - 35.

Have you not noticed that there are all claims and no specific
experiments shown with analyzable data given?

> > G = 6.7e-11 in MKS system
> > M = Mass of the sun = 2.0e30 Kg
> > R = Radius of the sun = 1.4e9 m
>
> In Europe we are told that the radius of the sun is
>
> R = 6.96e8 m   :-)

OK, it is my mistake to use the diameter instead of the radius.

> > By the way, this type of measurement on the delay time requires you to
> > know the accuracy of the distance involved.  You'd better know this
> > accuracy from the earth to the Venus with a few centimeters or
> > better.  Without an interferometer, how can you accept any
> > experimental results on this subject without any question?
>
> The delta t (round trip) is equivalent to a seeming (virtual?
> apparent?) increase of the distance between Earth and Venus of
>
> c delta t / 2 = 36 km

What does this 36Km have anything to do with anything?

> It's not necessary to know the distance with an accuracy of centimeters.

Why?

> The distance Earth - Venus when Venus stands between Earth and
> Sun can be measured by measuring the travel time of reflected radar
> signals. In combination with the data of Venus' orbit you get the
> distance needed for the Shapiro-Experiment.

I am still not convinced this 240uSec is qualified.  There is no
interferometer to detect such a minute difference in signal.  There is
no way to nail down the distance from the earth to Venus to an
accuracy of mere centimeters.  There is no reference signal to be
compared with.

> > To derive the Shapiro time delay through gravitational time dilation,
> > we have
>
> > T = 2 int[ds / c]  (from -a_E to a_V)
> >   = 2 int[dx / sqrt(1 - 2 U)] / c
> >   ~ 2 int[dx (1 + U)] / c
> >   = 2 x / c + (G M / c^3) sinh^-1(x / R)
> >   ~ 2 (a_E + a_V) / c + 2 (G M / c^3) ln(4 a_E a_V / R^2)
>
> > Where
>
> > **  U = G M / c^2 / r
> > **  a_E >> R
> > **  a_V >> R
>
> > This is the same derivation when we have the following 1911 equation
>
> > C(r) = c (1 - U)
>
> Your calculation is the same calculation as I have given - with a little
> meaningful difference.

Well, I see my mistake.  Thank you for pointing that out.  There is an
extra curvature in the r direction.  Thus, according to the
Schwarzschild metric, we have the round trip time derived as the
following.

T = 2 int[ds / sqrt(1 - 2 U) / sqrt(1 - 2 U)] (from -a_E to a_V)
  = 2 int[dx / (1 - 2 U)] / c
  ~ 2 int[dx (1 + 2 U)] / c
  = 2 x / c + (4 G M / c^3) sinh^-1(x / R)
  ~ 2 (a_E + a_V) / c + (4 G M / c^3) ln(4 a_E a_V / R^2)

Thus, the delay time is

dt = (4 G M / c^3) ln(4 a_E a_V / R^2)

> Starting with the equation
>
> c' = c (1 + kV/c^2)
>
>      k = 1: 1911
>      k = 2: 1916

However, this does not mean

C(r) = c (1 + 2 U), k = 2

Or

C(r) = c (1 + U), k = 1

Under the concept of GR, the speed of light must be the same
everywhere.  That is

C(r) = c

It is the gravitational time dilation and the curvature in space that
seems to affect the speed of light in an experiment.