🚀 go-pugleaf

Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  5bafb58e-2ffc-45f9-a9c6-f4234ac71bc2@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
> On Sep 10, 3:50 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 10, 8:28 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sep 10, 2:55 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> On Sep 9, 2:46 pm, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> On Sep 9, 6:40 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 9, 9:07 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2:27 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> sci.physics.relativity:
>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 1:01 am, HW@....(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:59:44 -0700 (PDT), PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 7:56 pm, HW@....(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone tries to measure the properties of a moving object or clock and finds
>>>>>>>>>>> them to be different from those measured at rest then the experimental method
>>>>>>>>>>> is obviously flawed.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, if an experiment shows evidence of something that is
>>>>>>>>>> contrary to your expectations, then something is wrong with the
>>>>>>>>>> experiment. This coming from someone "born with a scientific mind".
>> 
>>>>>>>>> Even your own colleagues....the less ignorant ones....agree that nothing
>>>>>>>>> actually happens to a clock or rod as a result of a speed change.
>> 
>>>>>>>> Actually, what's agreed upon is that the physical property does in
>>>>>>>> fact change, but that no physical process occurs to the object to
>>>>>>>> change the property. You find it difficult to imagine how one can
>>>>>>>> happen without the other.
>> 
>>>>>>> But, Clever Draper, that is a very specific zombie imagination
>>>>>>> acquired after years of singing ("Divine Einstein", "Yes we all
>>>>>>> believe in relativity, relativity, relativity" etc.) accompanied by
>>>>>>> energetic convulsions. How can you expect a person who has never taken
>>>>>>> part in all those worships to imagine "that the physical property does
>>>>>>> in fact change, but that no physical process occurs to the object to
>>>>>>> change the property"? Be condescending, Clever Draper!
>> 
>>>>>>> Pentcho Valev
>>>>>>> pva...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>>>>> Oh, come, come, Pentcho, you know better! Momentum, velocity, kinetic
>>>>>> energy, electric field, magnetic field -- all these are physical
>>>>>> properties that in fact change with change in reference frame, and
>>>>>> there is no physical process acting on the object to effect that
>>>>>> change. For most of those, Galileo and Newton knew that, and that was
>>>>>> 300 years prior to anyone even knowing who Einstein was, let alone
>>>>>> singing songs about him.
>> 
>>>>>> PD
>> 
>>>>> Clever Draper what are you talking about. The travelling clock returns
>>>>> PHYSICALLY different from the clock at rest (according to Divine
>>>>> Albert's Divine Idiocy),
>> 
>>>> No, it doesn't. When it returns and is compared with the clock at
>>>> rest, the rates of the clocks are identical.
>> 
>>> Don't lie, Clever Draper. When the travelling clock is compared with
>>> the clock at rest, they are PHYSICALLY different (according to Divine
>>> Albert's Divine Idiocy).
>> 
>> No, they show different rates when viewed from different reference
>> frames, but the clocks are physically identical. This is no different
>> than a car having a different kinetic energy when viewed from a
>> different reference frame, but it still being a physically unchanged
>> car.
>> 
>> It would help if you understood what Divine Albert actually said,
>> Pentcho.
> 
> Divine Albert said that, when the travelling clock returns, its hands
> occupy different positions (compared with the hands of the clock at
> rest).
> 
> Now that's what I call a PHYSICALLY different clock.

Paul said: "the rates of the clocks are identical".
He did not say: "the hands of the clock at are identical".
So, indeed, as I said, you don't understand the difference
between rates and values.

NO WAY OUT, PONCHO :-)

Dirk Vdm