Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #7309Re: VIOLATION OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS
From: Fred Kasner
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:21
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:21
30 lines
3381 bytes
3381 bytes
Michael Moroney wrote: > Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> writes: > >> On 6 Oct, 03:38, "daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote: > >>> Any proof for this article of faith? The water is drawn in because it is a >>> slightly polar molecule in an electric field. So the molecules will tend to >>> orient themselves with the electric field. That 'discharges' the capacitor >>> slightly. When the water leaves through the hole, the molecules do not >>> re-impart this energy back to the capacitor, it instead carries a tiny >>> electric field out the hole by virtue of average molecular orientation is a >>> certain direction. >>> >>> So we go from the highly ordered charge of the initially charged capacitor >>> to the less ordered configuration of a partially discharged capacitor and >>> slightly polar oriented water molecules that are tumbling out the small >>> hole. Sounds to me like entropy is increasing. No violation of the second >>> law here. > >> Too silly. The capacitor can only be discharged as it exchanges >> charged PARTICLES with water. > > The charge (in coulombs) on the capacitor remains the same, but the > energy per unit charge has been reduced because the change in the > dielectric has changed the capacitance itself. And the fraction of oriented molecules of water produced by the electric field is rather small. 19th century statistical mechanics demonstrates this quite convincingly. FK
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X-Google-Thread: 10f545,c85778b86009ffdb X-Google-Thread: 10b271,c85778b86009ffdb X-Google-Thread: 107e5d,c85778b86009ffdb X-Google-Thread: f4886,c85778b86009ffdb X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,c85778b86009ffdb X-Google-Attributes: gid10f545,gid10b271,gid107e5d,gidf4886,gidfa4c1,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!d90681bd!not-for-mail From: Fred Kasner <fkasner@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: fkasner@sbcglobal.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.energy,sci.chem,fr.sci.physique Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS References: <1191216305.321224.304200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> <4702c120$0$20614$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> <1191389500.568211.175620@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <4706d8f7$0$15391$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> <1191656085.121760.79330@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> <feavj7$e1u$2@pcls6.std.com> In-Reply-To: <feavj7$e1u$2@pcls6.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Message-ID: <a_cOi.1396$lD6.140@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.57.147.229 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1191795718 ST000 75.57.147.229 (Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:21:58 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:21:58 EDT Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPWERVD[@JJ@NFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\BTUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:21:58 GMT