🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Article View: sci.physics.relativity
Article #887

Re: Experiments Confirming Two Incompatible Theories

#887
From: kenseto
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:51
88 lines
5733 bytes
On Dec 22, 4:39 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Michelson-Morley experiment confirms Newton's emission theory of
> light if:
>
> 1) the speed of light DOES depend on the speed of the light source.

The speed of light is a constant ratio in all frames and thus it DOES
not depend on the speed of the light source.

>
> 2) a long train CANNOT be trapped inside a short tunnel, a 80m long
> pole CANNOT be trapped inside a 40m long barn and a bug CANNOT be both
> dead and alive.

It is true that the physical length of a long train cannot be trapped
inside a physically shorter tunnel. Also it is true that that a
physically 80 m long pole Cannot be trapped inside a  physically 40m
long barn.

>
> The Michelson-Morley experiment confirms Einstein's special relativity
> if:
>
> 1) the speed of light DOES NOT depend on the speed of the light
> source.

The speed of light from a stationary source is a constant ratio in all
frames and thus it does not depend on the speed of the light source.
The speed of light does depend on the speed of a moving source as
follows:
c'=(detected frequency of the moving source)(universal wavelength of
the moving source)

>
> 2) a long train CAN be trapped inside a short tunnel, a 80m long pole
> CAN be trapped inside a 40m long barn and a bug CAN be both dead and
> alive:

A physically long train cannot be trapped inside a physically shorter
tunnel and a physically 80m long pole cannot be trapped inside a
physically shorter barn. SR uses the bogus concept of Relativity of
Simultaneity to explain these paradoxes. The front door closes and
open and thus allow the front of the pole exist the barn before the
rear end of the pole is completely inside the barn. In other words the
pole was never inside the barn with both doors close simultaneously.

Ken Seto

>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSRIyDfo_mY&mode=related&search
>
> http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/barn_pole.html
> "These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors
> at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a
> switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in
> the barn. Now someone takes the pole and tries to run (at nearly the
> speed of light) through the barn with the pole horizontal. Special
> Relativity (SR) says that a moving object is contracted in the
> direction of motion: this is called the Lorentz Contraction. So, if
> the pole is set in motion lengthwise, then it will contract in the
> reference frame of a stationary observer.....So, as the pole passes
> through the barn, there is an instant when it is completely within the
> barn. At that instant, you close both doors simultaneously, with your
> switch. Of course, you open them again pretty quickly, but at least
> momentarily you had the contracted pole shut up in your barn. The
> runner emerges from the far door unscathed.....If the doors are kept
> shut the rod will obviously smash into the barn door at one end. If
> the door withstands this the leading end of the rod will come to rest
> in the frame of reference of the stationary observer. There can be no
> such thing as a rigid rod in relativity so the trailing end will not
> stop immediately and the rod will be compressed beyond the amount it
> was Lorentz contracted. If it does not explode under the strain and it
> is sufficiently elastic it will come to rest and start to spring back
> to its natural shape but since it is too big for the barn the other
> end is now going to crash into the back door and the rod will be
> trapped in a compressed state inside the barn."
>
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/Relativ/bugrivet.html
> "The bug-rivet paradox is a variation on the twin paradox and is
> similar to the pole-barn paradox.....The end of the rivet hits the
> bottom of the hole before the head of the rivet hits the wall. So it
> looks like the bug is squashed.....All this is nonsense from the bug's
> point of view. The rivet head hits the wall when the rivet end is just
> 0.35 cm down in the hole! The rivet doesn't get close to the
> bug....The paradox is not resolved."
>
> Pentcho Valev
> pva...@yahoo.com
Technical Details
Message-ID: <47aa7b2d-9518-4556-af77-3bfcaff407d8@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
References: <4214dd95-530c-40e1-b3af-1446d1253e6f@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
X-Google-Thread: 237b8ad48,724fb2554c435684
X-Google-Attributes: gid237b8ad48,public,usenet
X-Google-NewGroupId: yes
X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII
Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: kenseto <kenseto@erinet.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Subject: Re: Experiments Confirming Two Incompatible Theories
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:51:51 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <47aa7b2d-9518-4556-af77-3bfcaff407d8@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <4214dd95-530c-40e1-b3af-1446d1253e6f@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 99.148.196.77
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1261489911 926 127.0.0.1 (22 Dec 2009 13:51:51 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:51:51 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=99.148.196.77; 
 posting-account=A_fxOQkAAAC3cvPrAtLES_UPpvsB8VF2
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; 
 Trident/4.0; GTB6; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0;
 OfficeLiveConnector.1.3; OfficeLivePatch.0.0; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR
 3.0.30618; yie8),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)