🚀 go-pugleaf

On Jun 5, 5:32 pm, "foolsrushin." <dolomi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 3 Jun, 08:40, mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
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> > On Jun 2, 11:08 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:55:43 -0700 (PDT),
> > > mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >On Jun 2, 10:46 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:51:36 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >On Jun 2, 9:46 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:35:09 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >> >On Jun 2, 2:30 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:10:48 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >On Jun 2, 6:33 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:29:52 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> >> >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >On Jun 1, 10:27 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:52:46 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> >> >> >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 1, 9:03 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:22:17 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 1, 2:12 pm, Douglas Berry <penguin_...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On  Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mitch.nicolas.raem...@gmail.com carved the following into the hard
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> stone of alt.atheism
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Near the end of his life he gave up on pantheism. He saw God in His
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >creation. In the end he said he believed in the "Creator."
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Except that he didn't.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Mitch Raemsch; Two Time Nobel Laurate 2008
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Except that you aren't.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >You are the atheist not Albert Einstein:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >"I want to know how God created this universe. All the rest are just
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >details."
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Again, metaphor isn't your strong suit.- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Einstein wasn't an atheist.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> I never said that he was. He certainly wasn't a theist by any
> > > >> >> >> >> >> meaningful definition of the word, though.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >And my quote is accurate. Anyone who knew
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >him knew that.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> This quote is accurate, too:  "I do not believe in a personal God and
> > > >> >> >> >> >> I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something
> > > >> >> >> >> >> is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded
> > > >> >> >> >> >> admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can
> > > >> >> >> >> >> reveal it."
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >"God does not play dice."
> > > >> >> >> >> >> Again, metaphor isn't your strong suit.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> BTW, your claim that "near the end of his life he gave up on
> > > >> >> >> >> >> pantheism. He saw God in His creation. In the end he said he believed
> > > >> >> >> >> >> in the "Creator."" is still bogus.- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >> >Einstein's God wasn't your metaphor Rave.
> > > >> >> >> >> Einstein's God was identical to Spinoza's; an underlying order to the
> > > >> >> >> >> universe, which was neither personal, nor even a deity, as theists
> > > >> >> >> >> understand the term.- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> >At the end of his life Einstein said "Creator."
> > > >> >> >> And an in-context example of this might be...?- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> > > >> >> >"The older I get the more I believe there is a Creator."
> > > >> >> Nice try. Now how about something Einstein actually said.
> > > >> >"I want to know how God created this universe. All the rest are just
> > > >> >details."
> > > >> Again, look up the idea of "metaphor". Einstein was explicit that his
> > > >> "God" was not personal, but an underlying order to the universe.
> > > >> BTW, may we take your response as a tacit admission that Einstein
> > > >> never said "The older I get the more I believe there is a Creator."?
> > > >> That was the topic at hand.
> > > >I believe Einstein saw the Creator as the Orderer of physical reality.
> > > ie: "Spinoza's God", not a being, but an underlying order to the
> > > universe. Nice "own goal".
> > > Still waiting for you to support your assertion that Einstein ever
> > > said "The older I get the more I believe there is a Creator.". Can we
> > > just conclude that you lied, and move on?
> > You can't get around the fact that Einstein wasn't an atheist. You may
> > dismiss what he said later in his life. But I won't.
> > Mitch Raemsch.
>
> Jeez, what a mess!
>
> Abolish the Observer. Yeah, you've thought a whole pile before 'you
> went downstairs and drank a cup and dragged a comb across your hair?'
>
> Russell wondered whether 'the thought requires a thinker'.
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> 'There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung, ...'.
>
> No thinkers left? We are in a thoughtful place!
>
> Hoyle's 'The Intelligent Universe' puts science where it belongs!

What does science know? What will it know in a million years?

Give me a break to think that at this point in time we know much at
all.

Mitch Raemsch; Twice Nobel Laureate 2008


>
> A puzzle for us to work out, he opines.
>
> Contemporary scientific epistemology is contradictorly egocentric and
> paradoxically anti-observer!
>
> The assumption is that it all swings around us - whatever Copernicus,
> foreigner, of course, might have thought!
> --
> 'foolsrushin.'- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -