🚀 go-pugleaf

On 6 May, 13:23, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> In sci.physics, BradGuth
> <bradg...@gmail.com>
>  wrote
> on 6 May 2007 12:14:23 -0700
> <1178478862.992491.72...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > On 5 May, 16:45, The Ghost In The Machine
> > <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> >> By lucky chance the Moon's apparent size is the same as
> >> the Sun's.  A naive model of the luminosity would suggest
> >> that the "inlunation" would therefore be about
> >> 0.12 * (1350 W/m^2) = 162 W/m^2.
>
> > As per damage-control usual, that's excluding the secondary/recoil
> > worth of IR/FIR(longwave photons), easily worth more than twice the
> > visual albedo spectrum that's reflecting 8~12%, whereas where else do
> > you suppose all of that other solar influx (88~92%) that's directly
> > impacting our naked moon is going?
>
> Presumably, into outer space.  The Earth does not occupy *that* large a
> field in its sky, though it's larger than the Moon in ours.
>
> As for longwave IR...I'd have to study the issue.

Good luck, as you'd be one of the first to crack the taboo/
nondisclosure code of exactly how double extra hot our moon and of its
longwave IR shine is worth, not only to Earth's environment, but also
as to working that moon in person by day.

>
> >> A better model would simply note that an object with
> >> apparent magnitude -26.73 would have 1350 W/m^2 insolation,
> >> and for every 5 units of increase of apparent magnitude the
> >> incoming flux decreases by a factor of 100.  Therefore,
> >> since the full Moon's apparent magnitude has been
> >> measured at -12.6, it is almost a million times fainter.
> >> This yields a value of about 3.01 milliWatts/m^2.  Over the
> >> "disk viewing area" of the Earth (which is 1/4 of the
> >> real surface area [*]), that translates into an additional
> >> 384 gigaWatts worldwide during a full moon, and about 200
> >> gigaWatts on average during the entire lunar cycle.
>
> >> (It's not 192 because of Earthshine, so I'm fudging a bit.)
>
> > You certainly are fudging, because, that's still excluding the
> > secondary/recoil worth of IR~FIR, that's worth twice and possibly as
> > much as three fold the 12% visual limited spectrum, which makes that
> > 384 gigaWatts become worth 1536 gigaWatts at full moon, and otherwise
> > sharing perhaps worth 768 gigaWatts on average, which is still pretty
> > much nothing compared to the all-inclusive tidal friction that's
> > continually working our environment inside and out, unavoidably
> > causing so much other GW trauma, to the tune of having been sharing
> > many other teraWatts that's mostly contributed to what's within our
> > salty oceans and otherwise deep below our too left dumbfounded feet.
>
> > We humans at having supposedly been generating 13.5 TW in addition to
> > our body heat, are as such only worth having added 26.41 mw/m2,
> > whereas even 10 fold that amount is still only worth 264 mw/m2
> > (obviously that's entirely surface limited, thus excluding the whole
> > cubic volume worth of Earth, of which our moon's tidal force and
> > subsequent friction doesn't exclude).
>
> Ah, but the Moon is generating how much extra then?

For starters, there's the equal of 7.2e21 kw to think about.  I've
suggested 0.0001% of that energy as potentially impacting our 99%
fluid Earth in ways of friction causing heat.  That's 7.2e15 kw, and
even a 6th of that = 1.2e15 kw

As to how much of that 1.2e15 kw becomes actual heat is what I'd like
to realize.

I believe Earth's core isn't simply hot because of having been so well
insulated.

>
> >> What one can do about these gigaWatts, I for one do not
> >> know.  Compared to Sol's contribution of about
> >> 1.72 * 10^17 W on the sunlit side of the Earth, a few
> >> hundred gigawatts is negligible.
>
> >> [*] if one has a sphere of a certain radius r, and a disc with the same
> >> radius, the area of the disc is pi * r^2, and the surface area of the
> >> sphere is 4 * pi * r^2, by elementary geometry.
>
> > Apparentlty, your "elementary geometry" auto-excludes those pesky IR
> > and FIR spectrums, just like it previously and otherwise continues to
> > auto-exclude whatever anti-cathode contributions of gamma and hard-
> > Xrays.
>
> Geometry is the study of measures and angles.  It does not include
> radiation.

Then we need ourselves a good radiation physics wizard, don't we.

>
> > The full moon's IR shine is offering a fairly considerable thermal
> > budget (especially while orbiting that physically dark moon at 100
> > km), that's simply of much greater thermal energy than our atmospheric
> > filtered and thus moderated IR planetshine(266 w/m2), as having been
> > LEO measured by God/NASA, whereas our moon's IR shine is especially
> > extra toasty once we add in the secondary/recoil worth of such raw IR/
> > FIR spectrums from all of those pesky longwave photons.
>
> > Too bad we still haven't established any science platform within our
> > moon's L1.
>
> And how, precisely, are we going to do that since anything that gets
> closer than Earth to the Moon is going to automatically melt, according
> to you?

Oddly, I never once said that, or in any way indicated such items
would melt.

The extra IR shine of having to accommodate our moon while station-
keeping in its L1 is going to make it a little tougher for those
robotics to survive, especially when getting thermally nailed by one
primary and two secondary sources at the same time, plus having to get
rid of whatever internal science technology heat that's introduced by
various instruments.  At least the abundance of gamma and hard-Xrays
would not be nailing human DNA.

>
> > Perhaps China or India will soon enough take care of that,
> > especially since doing such will be so fly-by-rocket efficient to
> > accomplish and even to interactively station-keep whatever within our
> > moon's L1.
>
> Doing so would be deadly, according to you.  Make up your mind.
> Or does infrared radiation only burn those of the Judeo-Christian faith
> to a crisp?

Reflective heat shields that remain interactive can protect the
sicence platform, and even rather nicely with shade to burn, sort of
speak.

I'm talking about robust science robotics, not for accommodating our
frail DNA.  The only long-term humanly survivable moon L1 is that made
possible by that of my LSE-CM/ISS abode, of 256 megatonnes.
-
Brad Guth