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Article #15848Re: LA SCIENCE: UNE FORTE PERTE DE CREDIT. EXPLICATION
From: Rock Brentwood
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:52
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:52
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On Dec 18, 12:09 pm, Yanick Toutain <yanicktout...@hotmail.com> wrote: > The earthmoving, for Isaac Newton was indeed a displacement compared > to the vacuum itself. An absolute displacement. Newton had no choice but to proceed the way he did, because the ideas required to fully incorporate Galilean relativity (affine bundles) would not come into being until Cartan. The problem he faced is as follows. Galileo's principle of relativity means that "0" no longer has any objective meaning for velocity. This, then, would mean that velocities could not be regarded as vectors, since a vector space has a 0. Rather, it has to be represented as a point in an *affine* space. For, indeed, that's the very feature that distinguishes affine spaces from vector spaces -- there is no distinguished "0" in the former. But, then, that's the problem. The differences and differentials of affine points ARE vectors. This makes it impossible to model the spatial geometry of positions as an affine geometry! The Galilean principle of relativity, you see, also entails an even greater relativity for spatial positions -- the relativity of Genidentity. Genidentity is the term logicians use to refer to the concept of a point at one time being the "same place" as a point at another time. Thus, most peoples' notion of genidentity is such that New York in 2001 is the "same place" as New York in 2008. But if motion is relative, then the "sameness" vs. "differentness" of place is too! It would be just as valid, for instance, to say that New York in 2001 is the "same place" as some place in the middle of outer space today where the Earth "used to be" before it "moved away" from that place. Thus, there is no longer any cohesive concept of a point, in the sense of a position that endures in time. The very genidentity of points (the prerequisite to defining spatial geometry) is lost. This means, among other things, that "point" can no longer be taken as a primitive in geometry, if you believe Galileo's principle. Rather, one must go one level deeper and take a point-at-an-instant (or what we now call an "event") as primitive. Thus, as an aside, we also see that it was GALILEO and Galileo's principle of relativity that made the concept of spacetime a necessity, and a necessary replacement for the lost cohesiveness of the concept of point; not Minkowski or Einstein or Lorentz; and not special relativity! If velocities are, themselves, affine points then that would that make positions? That was the dilemma Newton faced. While he could answer the question: "what is the differential of an affine point?" (for, that's what his bucket experiment was meant to demonstrate: the differential of the (affine) velocities is a (vector) acceleration), he could not answer the reverse question: "what is the ANTI- differential of an affine point?" And that's because the concepts required to formulate the answer to that question were not in the vocabulary of anyone prior to the early 20th century and the time of Cartan. The answer, of course, is that velocities lie in what's known as the "tangent space" of whatever the underlying geometry is. The geometry whose tangent spaces are affine spaces is called an affine bundle. So, Newton (possibly even unbeknownst to himself) did not formulate the principle of absolute space so much as to assert a new foundation for physics as he did simply as a convenient expedient to get out of the jam that he (correctly) saw would arise from taking serious Galileo's principle of relativity. He asserted the absoluteness of space, because he had nothing better at the time: he didn't know about affine bundles (nor spacetime). Had he had these concepts in his vocabulary at the time, he would have used them instead. Lack of opportunity, in this case, does not equate to lack of will.
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X-Google-Thread: 10b271,5788807def27a9fd X-Google-Thread: fa4c1,a5d242b4af1766c0 X-Google-Thread: 111645,a5d242b4af1766c0 X-Google-Thread: f55d3,a5d242b4af1766c0 X-Google-Thread: 1139f8,a5d242b4af1766c0 X-Google-Attributes: gid10b271,gidfa4c1,gid111645,gidf55d3,gid1139f8,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Rock Brentwood <markwh04@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: sci.physics, fr.sci.physique, fr.sci.astrophysique, fr.sci.philo, fr.sci.maths Subject: Re: LA SCIENCE: UNE FORTE PERTE DE CREDIT. EXPLICATION Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:52:06 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 73 Message-ID: <66822369-c38e-4744-a254-01bfd755bc4a@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> References: <488882f7-6806-4331-8970-0ceb3a87347c@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <ab3865f8-bbae-4343-bfe8-040b48a4e046@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.24.185.111 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1198151527 32144 127.0.0.1 (20 Dec 2007 11:52:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:52:07 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com; posting-host=64.24.185.111; posting-account=G-TjQAkAAADYg6rno3bWQPnIwKFBrf1t User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)