🚀 go-pugleaf

"Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@guesswhatuia.no> wrote in message 
news:47B9EB24.9070701@guesswhatuia.no...
| Max Keon skrev:
| > "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@guesswhatuia.no> wrote in message
| > news:47B5E7DE.8080307@guesswhatuia.no...
| >> Max Keon wrote:
| >>> Paul B. Andersen wrote:
| >>>> Max Keon wrote:
| >
| >>>>> If radioactive iron is chosen as the frequency generator in an
| >>>>> atomic clock, a GPS radius clock will run _slower_ than the
| >>>>> surface radius clock (all fixed with the ECI frame), by 4.55e-5
| >>>>> seconds per sidereal day. Not faster. The Pound and Rebka
| >>>>> experiment proves that gamma rays are generated in a vastly
| >>>>> different environment to that of lesser frequency rays.
| >>>> How did you arrive at this remarkable conclusion?
| >>>> It is wrong.
| >>> Once again, this is the blurb given in "Basic Physics 2, by
| >>> S.L.Martin and A.K.Connor", (1960+ vintage), briefly describing
| >>> the purpose of the Pound and Rebka experiment.
| >>>
| >>> -"In 1958 an effect was discovered by Mossbauer, working in U.S.A
| >>> -and known as the Mossbauer effect, which enabled very tiny
| >>> -frequency differences to be detected and measured. In 1960, using
| >>> -the Mossbauer effect, Pound and Rebka succeeded in measuring the
| >>> -extremely small change (only about 1 part in 4e+14) of frequency
| >>> -of the y-rays emitted by a sample of radioactive iron when it
| >>> -was moved from the bottom of the tower to the top of a tower 74
| >>> -feet high. The observed frequency change agreed with the
| >>> -relativity prediction within 5%."
| >>>
| >>> Notice that this information was gathered around the time when
| >>> the experiment was conducted. The authors would have had very
| >>> detailed knowledge of a recently conducted experiment, surely?
| >>> It's hardly likely that their description is flawed.
| >>>
| >>> According to the description given, the emitted y ray frequency
| >>> reduced _as the radioactive iron sample was raised to the tower
| >>> top_. That is NOT how a normal Caesium driven atomic clock
| >>> behaves.
| >
| >> According to which description?
| >> Certainly not the quoted one.
| >
| >>> But perhaps I've just misinterpreted the description.
| >
| >> You certainly have.
| >> Do you think the Pound & Rebka experiment would be
| >> considered to be a confirmation of GR if it had
| >> measured the opposite of what GR predicts? :-)
| >
| > GR predicts that clock oscillator frequencies are slower in a
| > gravity well, while the frequency of an inward traveling photon
| > increases.
| >
| > This was the purpose of the Pound and Rebka experiment
| > according to Brittanica;
| > -By Einstein's theory of general relativity a photon produced
| > -near the Earth's surface should be higher in frequency by 1.09
| > -parts in 1016 for each metre above sea level. In 1960 the U.S.
| > -physicists Robert V. Pound and Glen A. Rebka measured the
| > -difference between the frequencies of photons produced at
| > -different elevations and found that it agreed very closely
| > -with what was predicted.
| >
| > Pound and Rebka were not out to prove that an atomic clock runs
| > slower in a gravity well at all, they were out to prove that a
| > photon frequency decreases and wavelength increases as it travels
| > upward from a gravity well.
|
| What you don't seem to understand is that the (loosely expressed)
| statement "atomic clock runs slower in a gravity well" and the
| (loosely expressed) statement "a photon frequency decreases as
|  it travels upward from a gravity well" express the same phenomenon.
| See below.

 Definitely right off the scale of my bullshit meter, a year on the Moon
 is exactly the same as a year on Earth and is also a trip around the
 Sun, the Earth and Moon are together and a year is a unit of time.

If you use GR to calculate the time on Earth vs the time on the Moon
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation

 tf = 1,000,000 years
 gravitational constant G = 6.673E-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2
 Mass of Earth = 5.9736E+24 kg
 r = 385000 km (distance to Moon)
 c = 299792.458 km/sec

 t0 = 994222.168323667

An observer on Earth measures the Moon making ~6 more
orbits around the Sun in a thousand years, as prophesied
by Einstein. You'd think someone would notice by now.