Article View: sci.physics
Article #8446Re: the computational neurophysics of perception
From: StpNrrs
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:31
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:31
53 lines
4417 bytes
4417 bytes
Bryan Hackney wrote: > StpNrrs@aol.com wrote: > > robert bristow-johnson wrote: > > > >>in article 1130629424.117822.102680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, > >>maestro@ultrapiano.com at StpNrrs@aol.com wrote on 10/29/2005 19:43: > >> > >> > [...] > > > > "this known neural bottleneck". Do you mean the disparity in the > > amount of information that the ear sends the brain, at most a few > > thousand haircells firing ten times per second, compared to the > > 44100*16 bits per second required for high-fidelity digital audio > > sound? The same 'known neural bottleneck' occurs in the eyes - about > > 1000000*3*25 bits per second when your're looking at your computer > > monitor. > > > > Try this. Fill your monitor with approximately 8 point text, and see how > much you can read with your peripheral vision. Not much, eh? I was being ironic... In fact I agree with you, there is obviously hardly any information going from the eyes and ears into the brain, compared with the number of bits/sec of digital sound and video. "robert bristow-johnson" seems to think that the auditory nerves are rather like internet broadband connections into the inner brain, and claims that this must cause an information bottleneck. He proposes the theory that the ears discard so much information from the original audio signal that the resultant input into the brain is very lossy and therefore noisy, and claims that the inner brain is using noise-reduction techniques on this input to produce the perception of hi-fi audio. The idea is basically nonsense, and I pointed out that the same situation is 1000s of times worse for the optical system, and therefore unworkable (as you also realise). It is misleading to think that a sound 'is' the 41000 16-bit samples per second of digital audio (and that visual information 'is' the 1000000 RGB pixels at 25 frames per second of digital video). The sense of sound occurs in the brain - if a tree falls in a forest, it causes pressure variations in the air but it does not itself make the sound. The ears sense variations in air-pressure, and when the brain recognises features and patterns in that information, it can identify a sound as similar to something it has heard before. The vast amount of understanding of sounds stored in the brain's memory is gained from a lifetime's experience of hearing, and compensates for the apparently 'low quality signal' that the ears give the brain.
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X-Google-Thread: 10b271,ff6ade1d52693451 X-Google-Thread: f8fcc,ff6ade1d52693451 X-Google-Thread: 10065c,ff6ade1d52693451 X-Google-Thread: 106bde,ff6ade1d52693451 X-Google-Thread: 11446d,ff6ade1d52693451 X-Google-Attributes: gid10b271,gidf8fcc,gid10065c,gid106bde,gid11446d,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: StpNrrs@aol.com Newsgroups: sci.physics,comp.dsp,sci.bio.misc,bionet.biophysics,alt.sci.physics.acoustics Subject: Re: the computational neurophysics of perception Date: 30 Oct 2005 11:31:52 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 54 Message-ID: <1130700712.717354.177940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1130625124.508354.259710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <BF8973FB.BAB2%rbj@audioimagination.com> <BF8976B9.BAB5%rbj@audioimagination.com> <1130629424.117822.102680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <BF8985DA.BABF%rbj@audioimagination.com> <1130632469.454161.195380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <sx69f.38759$5e4.24448@tornado.texas.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.93.21.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1130700717 7522 127.0.0.1 (30 Oct 2005 19:31:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:31:57 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <sx69f.38759$5e4.24448@tornado.texas.rr.com> User-Agent: G2/0.2 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 9.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) X-HTTP-Via: HTTP/1.1 (Velocity/1.1.1 [uScMs f p eN:t cCMp s ]), HTTP/1.1 Turboweb [los-te201 8.3.3], HTTP/1.0 los-aa01[C35D1501] (Traffic-Server/5.3.8 [uScM]) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=195.93.21.1; posting-account=zcB_9gsAAADwVHCJFluOM8Q9QqaGyxbf