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Article #980Yes, Virginia, there's no superluminal communication (was Re: My objections to the collapse postulate)
From: Jonathan M. Gilligan
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 01:08
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 01:08
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In article <92097.101806U53644@uicvm.uic.edu> U53644@uicvm.uic.edu writes: >Please pardon me if this is a silly question (I'm a Math/Elec.Eng. grad, not >physics), but can one tell that a wave function has collapsed at a certain >distant point before light from that point would have arrived? If not, then >does the simultaneous collapse of that wave function everywhere transmit >information at faster than light speeds? If not, what's the paradox? You can't use this to transmit information. Suppose I have two particles with spin 1/2 produced by the decay of a spin-zero state. They are separated by a light-day. If I measure s_x of one particle, I know immediately what s_x of the other particle is (i.e., the wavefunction has collapsed). If someone else measures s_x of the other particle a second after I measure mine, she must measure the value I predict based on my measurement (i.e., if we use the same coordinate system and I measure +1/2 then she must measure -1/2). However, this person can't know that I've already measured my particle. The information that I've measured my particle can only reach her if I send a message saying, ``Hey you, I've measured s_x,'' and this message propagates at the speed of light. The only thing that happens instantly is that the particle is instantly in an eigenstate of s_x. However, you can't observe the state of the particle without disturbing it, so there's no way to tell when the superposition of + and - states collapses into an eigenstate. Thus, there's no way to communicate using wavefunction collapse. Some people are working on using the values of meaured spin (actually, the polarization of photons) to communicate without anyone being able to eavesdrop (see Bennett et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. Vol 68, p. 557 (1992) for example). However, the information propagates at the speed of light. They merely use the fact that s_x and s_y don't commute to provide security. There's nothing about the wavefunction collapse in there. What makes people uncomfortable about the wavefunction collapse is the same thing that made people uncomfortable about electricity and gravity before the advent of quantum field theory. They don't like the idea of action at a distance. The principal objection Newton had to address with his theory that gravity was responsible for the orbits of heavenly bodies was that no one liked to think that one body could influence another when there was no physical connection between the two. We have resolved this discomfort by explaining such forces in terms of the exchange of bosons (gravitation comes from hypothetical gravitons, electromagnetism from photons, the nuclear binding force from pions, the strong force from gluons, and the weak force from W and Z bosons). (BTW, I am a simple experimentalist in atomic physics and some more schooled than me in field theory may pull out the flamethrowers about this simplification, pointing out, for instance that pions are not fundamental in the same way as the other particles. This will not be relevant to the point I am making here). However, we still get uncomfotable with the idea of action at a distance in quantum-mechanical measurement. There's another, related, problem: Schrodinger's cat. Put a cat in a box with an ``infernal machine.'' The machine contains a single atom of a radioactive isotope and a detector that can detect this decay. When the detector fires, the machine breaks a vial of cyanide gas, which kills the cat. The paradox is, when exactly one half-life has passed, the cat's wavefunction is 50% alive and 50% dead. If I look into the box (perform a measurement) and find the cat dead, did I kill it by looking (collapsing the wave function)? If I wait until the probability that the nucleus has decayed is 99.9999% and look in the box, if the cat is miraculously still alive, have I brought it back from the dead? These conclusions violate our common sense about things and it makes people uncomfortable to feel that belief in quantum mechanics would require them to say that looking can kill (or revive) the cat. There's a very good book on the subject, called ``Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics'' by John Bell (of Bell's theorem) published by Cambridge University Press (1987). Also, see Bell's article ``Against Measurement'' and Peierls's response ``In Defence of Measurement'' in Physics World Aug. 1990, p.33 and Jan. 1991, p. 19, respectively. ---Jon -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jonathan M. Gilligan Time and Frequency Division <jongill@lilac.bldrdoc.gov> National Institute of Standards and Technology Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!sparky!uunet!dove!gilligan From: gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan) Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Yes, Virginia, there's no superluminal communication (was Re: My objections to the collapse postulate) Message-ID: <2694@dove.nist.gov> Date: 9 Apr 92 01:08:32 GMT References: <217@mtnmath.UUCP> <ktv2arINNqjp@network.ucsd.edu> <92097.101806U53644@uicvm.uic.edu> Sender: news@dove.nist.gov Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology Lines: 83