🚀 go-pugleaf

In sci.physics, bradguth@gmail.com
<bradguth@gmail.com>
 wrote
on 23 Apr 2007 12:08:12 -0700
<1177355292.043961.320550@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
> Still damn odd, though I guess fully expected, in that I've posted the
> following and of one other update, whereas they each supposedly got
> taken into the local Usenet node, but it's nowhere in sight (once
> again Usenet is selectively broken, even though others are getting
> their replies posted, as well as most all of their usual PC spermware/
> fuckware is getting through as per usual).  So, here's one more
> updated reply for the old VL2 gipper.

....??

>
> On Apr 22, 12:16 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
> <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>> Five?  How big are each of these units, physically?  How many humans
>> per unit?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigelow_Aerospace
> Bigelow Aerospace / Nautilus (aka POOF)
>
>>
>> As for a 19 months supply of beer and pizza -- that sounds like quite a
>> bit.  Assuming a rate of consumption of 2000 calories per solar day,
>> a single 14" cheese pizza will probably run 2290-2900, depending on
>> vendor, and have dimensions 14" round by maybe 1/4" -- or 2.5 liters of
>> pizza.  Bread density is probably 0.34 g/cm^3 or 340 kg/m^3.
>> 19 months is about 580 days.  This works out to 500 kg of pizza per
>> astronaut, though admittedly I'm doing a lot of handwaving.
>>
>> As for beer, 2 12 ounce cans per day might be enough.  (I assume water
>> is recycled.)  That works out to 400 liters or 400 kg of beer.
>
> Obviously you've never had a Northlake Tavern pizza, as you could
> easily get 4000 calories out of just one of their robust 14" pies.

The cited values were from various vendors.  Deep dish pizzas tend to
have more calories; they also weigh more and therefore cost more to
boost.

I am not entirely sure regarding the thickness.

>
> One of these POOFs would likely become their mess hall and pantry.
> Their transporter or at least their what-if OOPS! plan-B escape craft
> would likely stay for the duration, so that's offering a good 6th
> habitat that's worth something more than a given POOF.  Make that 4 12
> once beers/soul/day and you've got yourself a deal (plus more of
> whatever if that's what it takes for attracting those big spenders).

I for one have not yet computed spatial requirements.  There are
admittedly a number of issues there.

>
>>
>> > I would not be all that surprized at having to initially invest $100
>> > billion, although that amount would include a great deal of secondary
>> > science and gateway (do-everything space depot) capability.
>>
>> > Of Russian or perhaps a China launch service should greatly minimize
>> > the deployment cost (not a tenth as spendy per tonne as anything
>> > NASA).
>>
>> The current price is $20M per human for low earth orbit
>> boost; this is from the Russians.  If one assumes the
>> human is 100 kg (which is probably stretching it, but
>> I'm a hopeful sort and weigh about 100 kg :-) ) ) that's
>> $200,000/kg.
>
> There's a 10 fold profit margin built into that Russian $20M/human.
> Them tricky Russians were always the smart ones about doing nifty
> sorts of stuff in space related matters, wernt they.

If one assumes a 1 kg boosted into orbit, one requires 32
megajoules just to kick it around at 8 km/s.  That's $0.89
if one assumes $0.10 per kWh, but the problem is that we
don't have real good rockets.  Anyone real familiar with
the Rocket Equation:

v_f = v_i + v_e * log(M_i/M_f)

or

log(M_i/M_f) = v_f/v_e

or

M_i/M_f = exp(v_f/v_e)

and with current technology (v_e = 2500 m/s) will instantly notice that
M_i/M_f gets ridiculously big -- in this case, one gets

M_i/M_f = exp(8/2.5) = 24.5

so now that kg costs $21.83 to get into orbit.  Not bad, but there's an
awful lot of support equipment supporting that kg.

>
> Besides, it's looking good that China or perhaps India will likely get
> their wholesale VL2 deployment net cost down to well below $10,000/kg
> for all that's inert(w/o DNA), and perhaps not much worse off than
> $20,000/kg on behalf of whatever human cargo (+ pizza and beer).
> Therefore, even at the usual 10 fold mark up, it's doable.

Well do it, then; submit a business plan to a venture capitalist.  What
are you hanging around here for? :-)

>
>>
>> Since escape velocity requires twice as much energy as low earth orbit,
>> one has to double it to $400,000/kg, and possibly double it twice
>> more (he has to get there and back, after all), to $1.6M/kg.  This
>> works out to $1.6B per human per trip, all supplies considered.
>
> So what?  The rich are clearly only getting a whole lot richer, arnt
> they.
>
>>
>> > A total of perhaps 6 missions should accomplish the task, with the 6th
>> > mission including those first of 10 clients that'll pay $100 million
>> > each for their one way (nonrefundable) ticket.
>>
>> > There would be commercial and scientific sponsors picking up nearly if
>> > not better than 50% of the initial outlay plus operational tab.  Those
>> > five POOFs could accommodate as many as 20 clients, plus a small crew
>> > of perhaps not more than five.
>>
>> OK.  So who's going to come up with the initial investment?
>
> As I'd said, any number of commercial sponsors (including an eye
> popping TV reality show), of various scientific backings, plus all the
> loot we can get away with charging our crazy but otherwise rich ENRON/
> Exxon or fat old and stinking oil rich Dick Cheney clients.  For the
> $100 billion kick start, we could take out a World Bank advance as
> based entirely upon my good faith IOU.  I'm more than worth it, how
> about yourself?
>
> I'd also start selling off shares in Venus futures, intended for
> sharing in whatever interplanetary commerce that might just as likely
> evolve and come to depend upon our VL2 POOF city as their go between
> pitstop or gateway.  VL2 should also remain out of range of whatever
> Venusian SAMs or rather of their rigid airship to satellite
> terminating capability, although I'd still like having a few ABL class
> of laser cannons at POOF city's disposal, because you never know when
> our next resident LLPOF warlord is going accuse those nice Venusian
> Muslims or perhaps Cathar sleeper cells of having WMD, especially if
> there's oil or that of a nearly unlimited cache of 90 proof yellowcake
> to being had.
> -
> Brad Guth
>

Like I said...venture capitalists.  A good business plan is a must.

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